The Catholic Church is out of touch...

[Gob]

ONE priest said he learnt more about God from Alcoholics Anonymous meetings than the Catholic Church. Another compared the fervour of World Youth Day to the Hitler Youth.

And a 47-year-old, whose only ambition had been to be a priest, said: ''Given the state of the church today, I look forward to the night when I go to sleep and just don't wake up again."

Such were the varied, often frank and sometimes bleak views of Australia's Catholic clergy revealed in an anonymous survey.
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The Charles Sturt University academics Chris McGillion and John O'Carroll approached 1550 active and 160 retired priests for their views on their lives and their church, and 542 took part in the written survey.

The results, plus 50 face-to-face interviews, were the basis of their book Our Fathers, which revealed that many thought the Vatican was out of touch, bishops were bad managers and the future of the church was a cause of great concern.

''You've got a very representative group of mainstream priests responding,'' said Mr McGillion, a former Herald journalist.

What emerged was a priesthood in a professional crisis, rather than a vocational one, he said. While 90.2 per cent said their lives as priests had been fulfilling, 47.4 per cent found the workload ''excessive'' and 54.3 per cent thought they had too little say in the life of the church.

Only 35.4 per cent thought bishops were doing a good job, with one saying their performance was ''between poor and mediocre''. But 43 per cent did not feel nurtured by their bishop while 41.5 per cent did.

Almost 65 per cent did not think Rome understood the challenges facing priests and 70.1 per cent thought it often failed to understand the nature of the Australian church.

This schism was reflected in the respondents' views on church teachings. Only 19.2 per cent thought it sinful for married couples to use birth control.

Almost 70 per cent thought abortion was always a sin but only 40.2 per cent said the same of sex before marriage. More than 70 per cent thought celibacy for priests should be optional and several priests made ''no secret of the fact they were in long-term committed relationships with women''.

Lay involvement was seen as the church's greatest internal challenge, with many acutely aware of - and affected by - dwindling attendances.

The general secretary of the Australian Catholic Bishops Conference, Father Brian Lucas, would not comment on the survey, saying he had not seen the book.

A spokeswoman for the Archbishop of Sydney, Cardinal George Pell, was given a copy this week but would not comment yet.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/priests- ... 1b8r1.html

[dales]

ONE priest said he learnt more about God from Alcoholics Anonymous meetings than the Catholic Church.

Not surprising since much if not all the 12 steps came directly from the Bible.

[Gob]

Not surprising he learned more from AA than from the seminary?

[Andrew D]

Why do you, having blown your nose, have to open up the handkerchief and take a look at the contents. I mean why? What do you expect to see in there? A Turner seascape perhaps, the face of the Madonna, an undiscovered Shakespearian sonnet?

Yellow or green mucus is often (always?) a sign of infection. Clear mucus is not. Blood is an indication of, well, bleeding. Given an opportunity to obtain potentially significant information about one's own health easily, painlessly, and non-invasively, why not take advantage of it?

[dales]

Not surprising he learned more from AA than from the seminary?

Looks like that way.

[Sean]

Why do you, having blown your nose, have to open up the handkerchief and take a look at the contents. I mean why? What do you expect to see in there? A Turner seascape perhaps, the face of the Madonna, an undiscovered Shakespearian sonnet?

Yellow or green mucus is often (always?) a sign of infection. Clear mucus is not. Blood is an indication of, well, bleeding. Given an opportunity to obtain potentially significant information about one's own health easily, painlessly, and non-invasively, why not take advantage of it?

In that case it's time to discuss the disgusting, burbling noise...

[dgs49]

Good example of a headline and story that are rather disconnected from the data that are reported.

How about this: "Despite 50 years of massive propaganda to the contrary and an overall culture that unanimously disagrees, 80% of Australian priests are still of the belief that artificial contraception for married couples is sinful."

"Despite the great hardships and privation inherent in the vocation, more than 90% say their lives have been fulfilling."

"Just like everyone else, many priests think their bosses are doing a mediocre job."

"ONE PRIEST noted that he had learned more about Christian love by working with AA than his did at Seminary."

Not very exciting is it? Doesn't really make the point that the Church is "out of touch" does it?

Surprising fact: Most catholics around the world (excepting only Vatican City) think that the lords in the red hats are out of touch.

[loCAtek]

"While 90.2 per cent said their lives as priests had been fulfilling", compared to one. Really? Is this supposed to be significant?

[rubato]

"ARTIFICIAL" Contraception?

How flagrantly disingenuous.

But stupid.

yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

Since we're on the subject of artificial ...

Why are artificial flood control systems, road surfaces, water systems, vaccines, clothes, roofing materials, cars, heating, blood pressure-diabetes-antibiotics medicines, turf, paints, glass, cooking utensils, baseball bats, ok but 'artificial' birth control is not?


Well, sport?


Right, we're back to the "but stupid" part. Aren't we?


yrs,
rubato

[loCAtek]

Actually, giving this some more thought; this is significant in that it touches on the phenomenon that does affect some people's spiritual lives. Doubting or losing your faith, can happen to people in all walks of life; including the clergy, some of very high standing.
It's called experiencing a 'Dark Night of the Soul'

Spiritual term in the Christian tradition
Main article: Spiritual dryness

The term "dark night (of the soul)" is used in Christianity for a spiritual crisis in a journey towards union with God, like that described by Saint John of the Cross.

Saint Thérèse of Lisieux, a 19th-century French Carmelite, underwent similar experience. Centering on doubts about the afterlife, she reportedly told her fellow nuns, "If you only knew what darkness I am plunged into."[1]

While this crisis is usually temporary in nature, it may last for extended periods. The "dark night" of Saint Paul of the Cross in the 18th century lasted 45 years, from which he ultimately recovered. Mother Teresa of Calcutta, according to letters released in 2007, "may be the most extensive such case on record", lasting from 1948 almost up until her death in 1997, with only brief interludes of relief between.[2] Franciscan Friar Father Benedict Groeschel, a friend of Mother Teresa for a large part of her life, claims that "the darkness left" towards the end of her life.[3]

Jesus Christ may also have experienced such a crisis, when uttering My God, My God, why have you forsaken me? on the cross, before dying.

Typically for a believer in the dark night of the soul, spiritual disciplines (such as prayer and consistent devotion to God) suddenly seem to lose all their experiential value; traditional prayer is extremely difficult and unrewarding for an extended period of time during this "dark night." The individual may feel as though God has suddenly abandoned them or that his or her prayer life has collapsed. It is important to note however that the presence of doubt is not tantamount to abandonment—as there is a strong Biblical tradition of authentic confusion before God. Psalms 13, 22, and 44 display King David, the 'man after God's own heart' undergoing serious confusion before and anguish with God, yet this is not condemned or mentioned as being unfaithful, but rather as the only measure of faith that David could have in the face of such withering apparent abandonment.

Rather than resulting in permanent devastation, the dark night is regarded by mystics and others as a blessing in disguise, whereby the individual is stripped (in the dark night of the senses) of the spiritual ecstasy associated with acts of virtue. Although the individual may for a time seem to outwardly decline in his or her practices of virtue, in reality he becomes more virtuous, as she is being virtuous less for the spiritual rewards (ecstasies in the cases of the first night) obtained and more out of a true love for God. It is this purgatory, a purgation of the soul, that brings purity and union with God.

[dgs49]

For those with mid-to-high two-digit IQ's:

Natural birth control: abstinence, the so-called rhythm method, coitus interruptus. Totally harmless, totally natural. Usually effective.

Artificial birth control: Injecting, absorbing, or injesting chemicals into the female, or inserting a physical barrier between the male and female, or killing the child once conceived. Harmful, unnatural, usually effective.

Isn't it ironic that earth-first "progressives" who would recoil in horror at injecting the female with chemicals for most anything else find it "normal and natural" to do so when the purpose is to subvert and disable the human reproductive system? And they deny as an absolute matter of Faith that any of this can do any permanent harm.

[Scooter]

The Roman Catholic Church considers coitus interruptus to be an unnatural method of birth control and therefore sinful, and it is anything but "usually effective", having a fairly high risk of pregnancy in comparison to most other methods of birth control.

Abstinence is an effective birth control method only in theory; in real-world practice it is the least effective method of birth control, because so many who intend to remain abstinent do not, and as a consequence have no other method of birth control to use as a back up.

And unless one has a latex allergy, there is nothing about a diaphragm or condom that can be considered "harmful"; indeed, the latter also serve to prevent other harms associated with sexual intercourse (STIs).

[rubato]

Condoms, IUDs, and birth control pills are are perfectly natural.


yrs,
rubato

[SisterMaryFellatio]

For those with mid-to-high two-digit IQ's:

Natural birth control: abstinence, the so-called rhythm method, coitus interruptus. Totally harmless, totally natural. Usually effective.

Effective...fuckin pile of bollocks!

[Sean]

Abstinence is 100% effective. Ask any Irish Bishop.

Oh wait...

[dgs49]

To say that abstinence is not effective is like saying you can get drunk without drinking.

Footnote: I am the product of the failure of the rhythm method. As are a lot of us, I suspect.

I call your attention to rubato's most recent posting. Nothing more need be said.

[Scooter]

How many drunks swear they will never drink again and then relapse? Probably about as many as say they won't have sex and then go ahead and do it.

[Scooter]

And as for this:

Isn't it ironic that earth-first "progressives" who would recoil in horror at injecting the female with chemicals for most anything else find it "normal and natural" to do so when the purpose is to subvert and disable the human reproductive system?.

Please, enlighten us as to examples of all these people who eschew the use of drugs for regulating any other bodily process except for reproduction. Must be some variant of Christian Science that no one has ever heard of.

[SisterMaryFellatio]

"Apparently" The Virgin Mary abstained...look where it got her!