Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

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Gob
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Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by Gob »

Stopes advocated the compulsory sterilisation of those she considered unfit for parenthood in 1918, and in 1920.

In Chapter XX of her 1920 book Radiant Motherhood Stopes discussed race and said that the "one central reform" was: "The power of the mother, consciously exerted in the voluntary procreation and joyous bearing of her children, is the greatest power in the world". She added that two "main dangers" stood in the way. The first of these was ignorance and the second was the "inborn incapacity which lies in the vast and ever increasing stock of degenerate, feeble-minded and unbalanced who are now in our midst and who devastate social customs. These populate most rapidly and tend proportionately to increase and these are like the parasite upon the healthy tree sapping its vitality." Stopes then stated that "a few quite simple acts of Parliament" could deal with "this prolific depravity" through sterilisation by x-rays and assured the reader that "when Bills are passed to ensure the sterility of the hopelessly rotten and racially diseased, and to provide for the education of the child-bearing woman so that she spaces her children healthily, our race will rapidly quell the stream of the depraved, hopeless and wretched lives which are at present increasing in proportion in our midst".

Stopes promoted her eugenic ideas to politicians. In 1920 she sent a copy of her book, Radiant Motherhood—arguably the most explicitly eugenic of her books—to the Prime Minister's secretary, Frances Stevenson, and urged her to get David Lloyd George to read them. In November 1922, just before the General Election, she sent a questionnaire to parliamentary candidates asking that they sign a declaration that: "I agree that the present position of breeding chiefly from the C3 (substandard, low-grade,) population and burdening and discouraging the A1 (white and wealthy,) is nationally deplorable, and if I am elected to Parliament I will press the Ministry of Health to give such scientific information through the Ante-natal Clinics, Welfare Centres and other institutions in its control as will curtail the C3 and increase the A1". She received 150 replies
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

Big RR
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by Big RR »

Word fail me; finally, someone who makes Trump look erudite.

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TPFKA@W
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by TPFKA@W »

Of course her line of thought makes her a monster but I will say my short time in labor and delivery found me wishing that stupid people couldn't breed and thinking that the poor baby I held in my arms didn't stand a chance due to genetics and the environment it was about to go home and be brought up in.

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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by Big RR »

I understand; my time of working with the family courts and DYFS gave me the same feeling a number of times--but mass sterilization or government approval of procreation is not a lot better. My work with DYFS (I represented the children in court and often took positions counter to their's) showed me that even the best of intentions (and there were some very good and smart people in the office) doesn't always yield the best results; I shuidder to think what a department of Trump minions would do to the right to procreate.

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TPFKA@W
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by TPFKA@W »

What really then is the answer? We think nothing of working on other species through selective breeding to improve upon it. Humans, who by far have the biggest impact on the planet, when observed in the same light, are exempt and the thought is met with recoiling horror. Short of holding people down and removing their ability to reproduce how can we improve our population when so many are education and self improvement resistant?

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by BoSoxGal »

There is no mystery about how to improve the rates of procreation (at this time in human history, improve = reduce) and the plight of human children: educate women, provide them with full access to family planning and meaningful opportunities to be self-sufficient, and the birth rate will fall while the conditions for the upbringing of children will greatly improve - even more where society invests in high quality childcare institutions made widely available to the population regardless of socio-economic status.

Iceland is a global leader on this issue, but there is abundant evidence from around the world of the link between education for girls and women and a reduction in rates of procreation.

There are so many children who have been born into poverty to ignorant parents and gone on to become accomplished human beings, it is loathesome in the extreme to consider every child born into such circumstances to be a wasted child with no hope for a decent life. Many such children have gone on to become vastly better human beings than some who post on this board, for instance. Circumstances of birth do not define intelligence or character, and just as not all children born to relative privilege grow up to be decent (in fact many become despicable racists), nor do all children born to poverty or ignorant parents grow up to become the image of their parents.

I also shudder at the backward narrow mindset that equates wealth with human value - there are so many people in this world who were born to relatively wealthy, educated parents and were raised in terribly damaging - emotionally and physically - environments. The notion that better education and material acquisition automatically equates to more loving parenting is belied by all the stories of totally fucked up rich/privileged people, which exist in great abundance.

I mean, seriously. :roll: But why am I surprised that along with all the racism coming to the surface here, there is also eugenics rearing its ugly head.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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TPFKA@W
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by TPFKA@W »

NO ONE suggest eugenics. NOT ONE post suggested such. You are such a hateful, bitter individual. Go back into hiding if your opinion of others who post here is so low.

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TPFKA@W
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by TPFKA@W »

I read an article this morning which indicated that The CCP is doing sterilization of Muslim women held in interment camps. To me it is utterly outrageous and I wonder why it is getting so little press.

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RayThom
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Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by RayThom »

"Radiant Motherhood?" More like radioactive.

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TPFKA@W
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by TPFKA@W »

RayThom wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:14 pm
"Radiant Motherhood?" More like radioactive.

Miss Manners for White Supremacists.
Gives new thought to nuclear families.

Big RR
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by Big RR »

TPFKA@W wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:45 pm
NO ONE suggest eugenics. NOT ONE post suggested such. You are such a hateful, bitter individual. Go back into hiding if your opinion of others who post here is so low.

Indeed, that's the toughest question; I have been involved in a few dozen cases where the parental rights of the parent(s) (including some very well off parents, at least finacially) of my client were involuntarily or voluntarily terminated for good reasons (usually sexual and/or physical abuse, but one in which the parents kept their 12 year old daughter home from school pretty much as a slave--taking in laundry, etc. for her to work on for money), but while the prospects of my clients afterwards were, many too old to be adopted would be raised in foster care which is, at best, hit or miss. I've also successfully opposed termination of parental rights in a handful of cases where the child(ren) remained with their parents. However, the best we can do is keep children safe and present opportunities to them (one of my former clients graduated college last year and was starting graduate school--she sent me an email). I've also had mentally and developmentally disabled clients who were at least outwardly happy (I think they were genuinely happy), so it's tough to think of at else would make any sense.

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TPFKA@W
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by TPFKA@W »

However, the best we can do is keep children safe and present opportunities to them (one of my former clients graduated college last year and was starting graduate school--she sent me an email).
I would love to see a bill passed that gives every foster child an offer of, at minimum, 2 years of some type of college education or trade school at the government's expense. I would also like to see them aging out at an older age, say 21, giving them an opportunity to get on their feet prior to being ousted. If not, some type of housing voucher to give to them at age 18-21.

I have been trying to convince my husband that he and I being foster parents after retirement would be a great idea. I feel we can offer some advantages-we don't need the money for one thing. I would though accept the government money, put it in a trust and hand it to the kid when they age out of the system.
Husband so far wants no part of it. We shall see.

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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by Big RR »

My state, NJ, will find 4 years of college, or comparable trade schools, for all children in foster care who graduate from high school; I would endorse this for all similarly situated kids. They also provide decent medical benefits and decent counseling (including access to psychiatrists) for children with problems, which makes sense to expand as well.

As for fostering, I think those who can be foster parents should consider it. It's not for everyone as often you may have a child in your care for 12+ months and then have to return him or her to their parents, which is pretty hard to think of, but a lot of kids need temporary care (and some longer term) and it can make a difference in a young persons life, so seriosuly consider it. If I were a bit younger, I would seriously consider it.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

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TPFKA@W wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:45 pm
NO ONE suggest eugenics. NOT ONE post suggested such. You are such a hateful, bitter individual. Go back into hiding if your opinion of others who post here is so low.
You don't get to control whether I post here or not. And you've earned my low opinion not only by your hateful personal attacks on me and others on this board over the years, your despicable off-board antics attacking people back in CSB days, and your disgustingly racist and classist and every other -ist imaginable as expressed in your own words/posts. You're the epitome of narrow minded ignorant ugly midwesterner - gay and biracial is okay *if* related to you, but in everyone else you've got a very different mindset. You'll come back spewing some bullshit decrying my assertions and defending your so-called openmindedness, but your ugliness shines through every line of most of your posts.

You make me sick, but keeping you on ignore and not reading 90% of your posts suffices to allow me to enjoy the wit and wisdom of the Scooters, BigRRs, Econolines, Kristinas, RTs, Datsuns, crackpots and others of similar character left here who still regularly or semi-regularly post. Certainly in recent weeks the making light of systemic racism and protests against same by several of the uglies here has really turned me off, but there are still a few pearls to find among the snuffling swine. (With apologies to swine.)
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Joe Guy
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by Joe Guy »

Welcome back. I've missed your sunny disposition.

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TPFKA@W
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by TPFKA@W »

You make me sick
Well I am doing something right then. You are one jealous cow. Moo on.

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TPFKA@W
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by TPFKA@W »

If I were a bit younger, I would seriously consider it.
Why do you have to be younger? Honestly, you sound like my husband. As an aged retiree, if your health allows, you have the time and wisdom to work with them.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

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TPFKA@W wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:25 pm
You make me sick
Well I am doing something right then. You are one jealous cow. Moo on.
What's to be jealous of? :loon You're an ugly human being, all around. I'd rather be dead than be you.

But think whatever you need to in order to keep that ugly ego intact. :lol:
Last edited by BoSoxGal on Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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TPFKA@W
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by TPFKA@W »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:30 pm
What's to be jealous of? :loon You're an ugly human being, all around. I'd rather be dead than be you.

But think whatever you need to in order to keep that ugly ego intact. :lol:
Ugly human? Talk about projecting.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: Marie Stopes, next for the chop?

Post by BoSoxGal »

TPFKA@W wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:35 pm
BoSoxGal wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:30 pm
What's to be jealous of? :loon You're an ugly human being, all around. I'd rather be dead than be you.

But think whatever you need to in order to keep that ugly ego intact. :lol:
Ugly human? Talk about projecting.
This *could* go back and forth, back and forth - except there's only one of us who decries the births of all poor children with uneducated parents, who writes off an entire city of nearly 9 million people as having nobody nice living there because there is a gang violence problem, who routinely makes nasty comments about folks on and off the board, who routinely posts nasty negative opinions about her fellow citizens of varying colors, creeds, etc. - and it's not moi.

Enough of you. Bye, Felicia. :roll:
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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