God and his strange ways...

All things philosophical, related to belief and / or religions of any and all sorts.
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Gob
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God and his strange ways...

Post by Gob »

At least 44 people have been killed and about 150 injured in a crowd crush at a Jewish religious gathering in northern Israel attended by tens of thousands of people, in one of the country’s worst peacetime disasters.

Eli Beer, director of an Israeli volunteer ambulance service, Hatzalah, said he was shocked by the size of the crowds at Mount Meron overnight, estimated at around 100,000. Children were among the dead, he told Army Radio on Friday morning.

“Unfortunately, we found small children trampled there, and we performed CPR on children. We were able to save some of them,” he said.

Zaka, another voluntary emergency medical group, said the death toll had risen to 44. Meanwhile, the national ambulance service, Magen David Adom, said 14 of the roughly 150 injured remained in critical condition after being rushed to hospitals around the country.

The disaster took place when tens of thousands of ultra-Orthodox Jews had thronged to the Galilee tomb of 2nd-century sage Rabbi Shimon Bar Yochai for annual Lag Baomer commemorations that include all-night prayer, mystical songs and dance.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: God and his strange ways...

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Reminds me of the hadj disaster in Mecca in 2015 when 700+ people were killed in what was described as a stampede. That was the official number: press reports and subsequent investigations put it at 2,000 plus.

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: God and his strange ways...

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

A tragedy of course: but I had not expected this.

The Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) have put out a statement condemning the abuse apparently piled on some women members of IDF who took part in the rescue and recovery operation.
At the beginning of the Home Front Command's assistance operation at the tomb complex on Mount Meron, some of those present began to verbally and physically harm the IDF women fighters, who were on their way to evacuate the wounded. The force continued its mission ignoring the abusive behavior. The IDF views the incident very seriously and condemns any violence, physical or verbal, against its female and male soldiers.
Netanyahu depends on the ultra-orthodox representatives in the Knesset. But many non-orthodox Israelis have long been less than supportive of the orthodox faction who are, for example, often excused military service on the grounds that studying the Torah is more important than defending the country. And the mingling of men and women within the IDF has turned it into what some describe as a "cesspool of promiscuity". (That per Wikipedia - I could not get to the reference.)

And BTW - I didn't know this - the word 'ultra' has come to be seen by some as a pejorative. They prefer 'strictly.'

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Gob
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Re: God and his strange ways...

Post by Gob »

Religious = bonkers
Ultra-=orthodox = really bonkers
Fundamentalists = utterly crazy.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Econoline
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Re: God and his strange ways...

Post by Econoline »

Gob wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 1:44 pm
Ultra-=orthodox = really strictly bonkers
Okay, then.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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Econoline
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Re: God and his strange ways...

Post by Econoline »

Bible,Koran,KamaSutra.jpg
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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Gob
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Re: God and his strange ways...

Post by Gob »

I'm having that!
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Econoline
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Re: God and his strange ways...

Post by Econoline »

Image
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

Burning Petard
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Re: God and his strange ways...

Post by Burning Petard »

The Roman Catholic Bishops of the USofA announced that they were gonna ban Joe Biden from communion because he does not support legislation banning abortion. The Bishop's bosses in the Vatican told them they could not do that. Meanwhile, on Monday 10 May, the RC Bishops of Germany met and announced they would bless holy matrimony for same sex couples. Their bosses in the Vatican (actually credited as coming from the Pope before the Bishops met)) said they could do that because god cannot bless sin.

David Von Drehle had an interesting essay about this in the Washington Post. "Here's what it means to believe in a force of infinite scope and power. . .God can do whatever God feels like doing. . . . A God contained in a book, or a system, or an orthodoxy, is but a force harnessed by humans--no god at all." later he quotes Anne Dillard "It is madness to wear ladies straw hats and velvet hats to church, we should all be wearing crash helmets." Von Drehle again: "' 'God cannot bless sin' makes sense in terms of human theology, but it begs all the larger questions. Only God can say what God cannot do"

My own faith tradition holds that only God can know what is in the mind and heart of the person reaching out to take communion.

Mean while, in the most holy of holy places according to Muslims, Christians and Jews, bombs are flying in the air, from airplanes and rockets, killing children. I suppose this demonstrates that we are only human, perhaps.

snailgate.

Big RR
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Re: God and his strange ways...

Post by Big RR »

Interesting points BP, but I do take exception to
Here's what it means to believe in a force of infinite scope and power. . .God can do whatever God feels like doing. . . . A God contained in a book, or a system, or an orthodoxy, is but a force harnessed by humans--no god at all."
God may well be bound by the laws of the universe (laws on a dimension we likely cannot comprehend) and may be unable to do certain things in the universe because of that) even if the universe was designed and created by god. The laws of the universe may have been designed by god, but they are real and, unless we are willing to say that god exists outside of that reality (and some may say that, although I do not) there may well be things a god cannot do, and yet still remain as god.

FWIW, while I do agree that many who study religion seek to place god in a box conformed to their own views rather than recognizing that, generally, god can do what god wants. They set up a model of god modeled on human behavior--whether a father, a mighty warrior, a punisher or ... And they then conform their theory of god, and even their "observations" of god's acts and power, to this theoretical god they have constructed. So in their mind god cannot abide "sin" (which somehow explains why god condemns mankind for the way it is made) and concludes that god is somehow constrained from blessing that "evil". To do any less would be to concede that they cannot comprehend god's or god's will, and that makes the chuch (especially an authoritarian one like the RC church) without a leg to stand on. And so they continue to put god in a smaller and smaller box, while maintaining god's power is infinite.

To state that one's own beliefs can constrain the power or actions of god is the ultimate conceit, but it is a way to gain power. And a way to make humans more important and god less so.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: God and his strange ways...

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

I don't know whether God can or cannot "bless sin" - only that he does not but instead detests sin. And we know that because he said so.

One could debate endlessly (let's not) whether God has free-will (as we understand it) or whether he is in fact constrained by his own character such that he cannot e.g. lie, break a promise, enjoy evil, inflict pain for his own pleasure and so on. I doubt that he can make a square circle or a round triangle because that's not the way he's made such things/concepts and presumably wants them to be as they are. If he changes that, we'll notice.

The Roman church is wrong on so many things, and it seems on the face of it to be inconsistent that Joe can get communion (despite the abortion issue) while their organization does not allow a blessing for members committing sin (as their organization defines it). Since communion and blessing a marriage are two different sacraments in the Roman church, perhaps there is a logical explanation that escapes me.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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