Gotta Love a Good Librarian

[Joe Guy]

[
So, you're asking . . . did any original/first people alive before 1492 write their own history?

I'd guess that's a "no". What do you think they wrote it on? Word1491?

Silly bloke. Since there is no recorded history from the people who actually occupied this country prior to our ancestor's invasion, how would we know if they had access to Word 1491? It may not have even been invented yet but we wouldn't know because they didn't write about it.

[Burning Petard]

And speaking of suppressed or banned books. today is the 100th anniversary of the battle of Bear Mountain, W. VA. Longer format interview about it on NPR today concluded that The coal mine and railroad owners dominated the news media and school textbooks then and today. Thus majority of West by God Virginians are persuaded that the economy of West Virginia depends on coal and does not see that the economy of the state is kept at the poverty level because the wealth derived from coal was/is removed from the state.

snailgate.

[Bicycle Bill]

Actually incorrect; the Mayans had a very sophisticated writing system, as did the Aztec after them.

Was going to mention them ... we seem to have a lot of information as to what was going on through the archaeological record and inscriptions/pictographs found on the pyramids and other remnants of their culture, not just what Pizarro, Cortes, and the other conquistadors told us.
And there seems to be a fair amount of information that has been gleaned by excavation and investigation of other sites such as the Mound City necropolis near Chillecothe OH and the Effigy Mounds (a similar culture) along the Mississippi River near Prairie du Chien, WI.

For that matter, where are the written records of all the African culture that existed before the days of slavery, also?  Doesn't mean it doesn't exist, just means we ain't found it yet .... or gave a damn about it when we did.

-"BB"-

[MajGenl.Meade]

JESUS H CHRIST!! I was wondering if any people who lived here before us Europeans arrived and took over wrote about their own history. It's not a complicated question.

So, you're asking . . . did any original/first people alive before 1492 write their own history?

I'd guess that's a "no". What do you think they wrote it on? Word1491?

Actually incorrect; the Mayans had a very sophisticated writing system, as did the Aztec after them.

The discussion (if that it be) was over Joe's original post: "Was any history recorded by the original occupants of the U.S. about life here before the invasion by the white man?"

Seems clear to me he has been speaking of the North American portion of the Americas. In which case Mayans and Aztecs ain't in it.

[Bicycle Bill]

The discussion (if that it be) was over Joe's original post: "Was any history recorded by the original occupants of the U.S. about life here before the invasion by the white man?"

Seems clear to me he has been speaking of the North American portion of the Americas. In which case Mayans and Aztecs ain't in it.

from Wikipedia:

The Aztecs (/ˈæztɛks/) were a Mesoamerican culture that flourished in central Mexico in the post-classic period from 1300 to 1521. The Aztec peoples included different ethnic groups of central Mexico, particularly those groups who spoke the Nahuatl language and who dominated large parts of Mesoamerica from the 14th to the 16th centuries. (emphasis mine)

Last time I checked, Mexico was considered to be a part of the North American continent.

And as far as "the invasion of the white man" is concerned, the white man (starting with the Spanish and the Portuguese) were invading the whole fucking hemisphere, north AND south.  Now if either you or Joe wanna nitpick go ahead and do so, but you do so at the risk of looking foolish as hell.

-"BB"-

[Big RR]

Re the Mayan language, when I took Spanish in college (who says there is useless learning?) I read some of the writings of a Father Aguilar, a missionary captured and enslave the the Mayas; he could speak/write fluent Mayan, and later learned and Aztec dialect, compiling a dictionary of both languages translated into Spanish based on phonetic pronunciation and and writing--kind of like a South American Rosetta Stone. It facilitated a lot of the communications and accords.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Now if either you or Joe wanna nitpick go ahead and do so, but you do so at the risk of looking foolish as hell.

Take a pill, Bill . . . I thought Joe was referring to what we must not call "Indians" as in Comanche, Apache, Cheyenne, Arapaho, Haudenosaunee etc. i.e. those folks who were around on bits of what we call the US nowadays. Them kinds of first people. I didn't think he was speaking of Inuit or Mayans or Aztecs, though he may have been. I was dumb to refer to North America while trying to avoid using "US".

His question remains (I think) as did them there native American tribes in the now-USA states write down (before 1492) anything about their history/lives before 1492?

[liberty]

I just had a quick (maybe stupid) thought about U.S. history. Was any history recorded by the original occupants of the U.S. about life here before the invasion by the white man?

Since the original inhabitants of the US had no written language, they could have no history. History is the recorded events of humanity; there is no such thing as oral History. The only possibility of a Pre-Columbian history of the US would be if Mayans or Aztecs visited and left an account of their travels.

[Big RR]

Much or the written record which we call "history" is based upon the stories and told and repeated, often for generations, before they were recorded. They were not records created contemporaneously with the events. Sure, as time went on we had birth, death, and census records which were pretty contemporaneous, but a lot of what we call "history" was generated long after the events, whether it is native american history, western history, or even the bible).

[liberty]

Also, there is no evidence of any written language in sub-Saharan Africa south of Ethiopia before the arrival of the honkey Arabs. Of course, Africanist anthropologists could have just recently invented some, and I have not learned of it. They don't mind creating other facts about Africa.

[BoSoxGal]

Since the original inhabitants of the US had no written language, they could have no history. History is the recorded events of humanity; there is no such thing as oral History.

[Joe Guy]

His question remains (I think) as did them there native American tribes in the now-USA states write down (before 1492) anything about their history/lives before 1492?

Yes. That was my question. I should never have asked it.

Now I understand why I should always use Google instead of MajGenl.Meadel or Plan B'gle.

[BoSoxGal]

Now I understand why I should always use Google instead of MajGenl.Meadel or Plan B'gle.

Very wise, grasshopper.

[MajGenl.Meade]

[Crackpot]

Yeah they thought the pacific tribes were full of shit with thiier tales of a great wave and floods until it was confirmed by both the Japanese and eventually the geological record.

Incidentally a cascades slip is a far more likely impending disaster that both the Yellowstone super volcano and the San Andreas fault

[BoSoxGal]

Speaking of oral history of native Americans, don’t know if any of you read the Atlantic article I posted, but one of the issues discussed in it is how genomic research on native peoples is in some cases upending oral history. It’s a fascinating article.

[Gob]

Much or the written record which we call "history" is based upon the stories and told and repeated, often for generations, before they were recorded.

Like the bible.

[ex-khobar Andy]

There was a reasonably plausible theory that the Noah flood story was based on an actual occurrence. The Black Sea was formed when the geological sill, which separated the area from the Mediterranean, broke due to an earthquake or volcanic activity. Water rushed in from the Med at a rate, it has been calculated, of 100 times Niagara Falls, and the Black Sea formed in a couple of months where there had once been a shallow freshwater lake.

As I say, plausible at the time (1990 or so??) but pooh-poohed by some, but AFAIK not totally debunked. So there is something in oral history.

Of course the first historian, Herodotus, relied exclusively on oral history.

[Big RR]

Perhaps Andy, but the people who witnessed it likely drowned.

[Crackpot]

There is a lot of evidence for great regional floods over most of the earth. The literal Biblical flood err not so much.