Plan B Forum

Consider: the boy was too young to be indoctrinated, and he spoke of things his parents hadn't mentioned;

One boy’s astonishing account A small child, brought to the brink of death, describes his experience in the afterlife:

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/42154263/ns/today-books/

Now consider all the millions to whom that hasn't happened ...

Well, usually they're dead, and dead men tell no tales. ..

However, aaethists have near death experiences too;

Many religious people make the mistake of assuming that atheism is a one-way ticket to hell. The fact is that God cares very little about a person's religion or non-religion as revealed by some of the NDE accounts profiled on this website. The only thing that really matters is the spiritual condition of the heart. My experience has been that when an atheist tells me they don't believe in God, they really mean they don't believe in the Christian God or any God from any religion. From the NDE perspective, I can agree with this. Many atheists reject a spirit world for one reason or another and they generally do so because they have a strict scientific perspective of reality. Many scientific atheists devote their entire life studying the laws of nature and, to them, this may be their form of divine devotion whether they know it or not. In fact, because of this, I submit to you that a large percentage of such scientists are closer to spirituality than many religionists.


The near-death experiences below are already profiled on this website elsewhere. The purpose of this web page is to group those atheists profiled on this website who had a near-death experience. This web page provides links to their near-death experience accounts.

Atheists have deathbed experiences and near-death experiences just like everyone else does. The philosophy of Positivism, founded by the famous atheist named A. J. Ayer, is the philosophy that anything not verifiable by the senses is nonsense. Because NDEs mark the end of the senses, Positivists believe the survival of the senses after death is nonsense. But this philosophy has been challenged by its founder A. J. Ayer himself. Later in life, Ayer had a NDE where he saw a red light. Ayer's NDE made him a changed man: "My recent experiences, have slightly weakened my conviction that my genuine death ... will be the end of me, though I continue to hope that it will be." (Ayer, 1988 a,b)

NDE Analysis of Atheists

Too young to be indoctrinated? You haven't met many Irish catholics have you Lo...
Not to mention that his father is a pastor... I'm guessing that religion plays a large part in their lives.
Correction: His father is a pastor who stands to make (and has already made by the looks of things) a large amount of money from writing a book about this.

He was certainly old enough to be able to recognise the two hymns by name and as a Christian I would be amazed if he hadn't seen the picture of Jesus with the children on his lap. ("let the little children come to me" I think...). Little christian kids are told about guardian angels who are sent to look after them by Jesus from day one. Often these will be a deceased relative...

My belief is that the kid had a pleasant dream his brain conjured up to help him through trauma.

Good on him!

Well, studies indicate children aren't indoctrinated, or inclined to believe in the supernatural till about age seven. He was age four at the time of the incident, not eleven as in the interviews.

As for meeting deceased relatives; how could he meet two family members he's never known in life, but was able to describe them accurately?

Granted, you just have to take this family at their word, but they aren't giving any 'liar tells', they all sincerely believe this happened to them;

Bollocks to studies! I've known children that age who have been well on the road to indoctrination. Are you also saying that you've never known a child under the age of 7 who was scared of ghosts or the bogeyman?
As for deceased relatives, you don't think it's possible that he has seen photos of them? I know my four year old has been shown photos of many relatives both alive and dead.

Speaking of which, he told me today that "sparkly aliens" came to visit him in his room last night and let him drive their spaceship. Should I call my publisher?

Crackpottery.

yrs,
rubato

Sean wrote:Bollocks to studies! I've known children that age who have been well on the road to indoctrination. Are you also saying that you've never known a child under the age of 7 who was scared of ghosts or the bogeyman?

A research study includes what I know and more.

Sean wrote:As for deceased relatives, you don't think it's possible that he has seen photos of them? I know my four year old has been shown photos of many relatives both alive and dead.

If you'd read the article, or watched the video, you would know the Grandfather died before the Father was seven years old, and there were no pictures of him young nor without his glasses. Yet, that's how Colton describes him, while admitting he didn't recognize him as his Grandfather, he had to be told that's who he was.

His sister had died of miscarriage, there were no photos of her at all, and the parents didn't even know what sex she was, when she died.

Sean wrote: Speaking of which, he told me today that "sparkly aliens" came to visit him in his room last night and let him drive their spaceship. Should I call my publisher?

Sure, sounds like a great children's book; if your child starts describing the surface of other planets accurately I'd say call NASA.

Yes there is, it's located right here in Northern California.

And here I thought it was just south of Whitefish Point

loCAtek wrote: A research study includes what I know and more.

That makes no sense whatsoever. Still, given the choice between hearsay regarding a 'research study' and my own experiences I know which I'll believe.
Care to link to this study?

If you'd read the article, or watched the video, you would know the Grandfather died before the Father was seven years old, and there were no pictures of him young nor without his glasses. Yet, that's how Colton describes him, while admitting he didn't recognize him as his Grandfather, he had to be told that's who he was.

Or as the child put it: “Well, one of them looked like Grandpa Dennis, but it wasn’t him, ’cause Grandpa Dennis has glasses.”

Remarkable!

His sister had died of miscarriage, there were no photos of her at all, and the parents didn't even know what sex she was, when she died.

And there you have it! The kid told them it was a girl which makes it so. As evidence goes, flimsy to say the least!

Sean wrote: Speaking of which, he told me today that "sparkly aliens" came to visit him in his room last night and let him drive their spaceship. Should I call my publisher?

Sure, sounds like a great children's book; if your child starts describing the surface of other planets accurately I'd say call NASA.

Children's book? What makes it any less believeable than the one in question? Both are based on the testimony of 4yr old children...

loCAtek wrote:Well, studies indicate children aren't indoctrinated, or inclined to believe in the supernatural till about seven.

Cite required thanks.

I took care of a lady who "died" and came back. Her experience was quite different. She said she was in a hot red room surrounded by demons. Another guy was on a vent for quite a long time after a near death. When we took the tube out and he could talk he said he was terrified because his bed had been surrounded by demons even as we tended him.

These two individuals were scared shitless by the experience. Both said it was so real it altered the paths their lives took.

Who knows really?

Sounds like they both had a guilty concision @-W!

So god has this one last secret - to only show heaven and hell to those who are dead, so they can't then tell anyone else about it and thus keep the faith requirement. And he even bundles this. God versus medicine. Medicine wins. Hmmm.

In terms of memory, I recall a test performed in which people started to believe things that did not happen. I don't say that it applies in this case, but found it interesting anyway.

In another test, parents were shown a series of childhood photos to see what memories they provoked.

But psychologists digitally doctored a photo of each person in a hot air balloon to see how people reacted.


Het Shah, learning family traditions
At first, people said they could remember nothing.

But after they had been given two weeks to search their minds about what they could remember, half of them came up with detailed "memories" about their hot air balloon trip.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2190699.stm

Mind you, the bloke involved in these tests, Robert Winston, has a really bushy moustache, so I am not sure how valid the tests really can be

thestoat wrote:So god has this one last secret - to only show heaven and hell to those who are dead, so they can't then tell anyone else about it and thus keep the faith requirement. And he even bundles this. God versus medicine. Medicine wins. Hmmm.

Now, I didn't say that. That's the whole tenant of Christianity that Christ rose from the grave, to spread the Word of God.

Lo--the problem with testimony like this is that people only report what they recall; if they are spiritually inclined they will report it from that perspective, if not they'll report it with a good deal of skepticism. It's like having someone watch a good magician and then discussing how the effect might have been done. Even though many people have seen the effect performed, they will insist that the magician couldn't have done it that way (especially if the explanation is simple) because they wouldn't want to admit that they're that easily deluded.

Saying someone resembled a family member is quite subject to the same sort of bias--look how much people will argue who a newborn ;ooks just like--even if they are looking at the wrong newborn. People see what they want and remember what suits their version of the events.

All new borns look like WInston Churchill




Churchill. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . All babies

I cannot believe that people I believe sane are even bothering to debate this nonsense!

"Little boy raised in ultra religious household has near death experience and then returns to confirm every vapid cliché of his cult! Next up, man bites dog!! Paris Hilton, is she skinny or fat this week? Your chance to be on Jerry Springer..."