Plan B Forum

MajGenl.Meade wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 2:02 pm

Unlike Nixon and the Roman Church, the SBC (too late and/or better late than never) instigated the independent investigation and exposure of the grim truth. But we don't want to emphasize something like that, do we?

And the investigation covered (and was limited to) 20 years of allegations and cover-ups. Sure, good for them for doing *something,* but I'm pretty sure that's not the lede for this story.

Big RR wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 2:21 pm

Face it, institutions claiming to be teachers and arbiters of morality would have known that what they did was plainly wrong by the same principles they taught, but they chose to do that wrong and victimize more people anyway. And, IMHO, that is what should be emphasized, and what they must account for.

Nailed it.

Undoubtedly my dears. The Roman church has (AFAIK) has NEVER begun, supported, sponsored, paid for, hired, or publicized an independent investigation. They have more or less cooperated with independent investigators in the UK (Evans report) and Germany (allowing access to archives). This is Italy:

It aims to put public pressure on the Italian government to investigate past and present abuse in the Church or for the Church to commission an impartial investigation by outsiders.

February 22 2022 https://www.sowetanlive.co.za/news/worl ... e-inquiry/

I am neither condoning nor excusing the SBC past behavior of suppression. It's wrong by any standard, and especially (as BigRR put it) that of their sponsor. But they appear to be outing themselves, to whatever extent one cares to allow. But for those who enjoy stonewalling, check out Sovereign Grace churches, still refusing to join or support any kind of independent investigation.

It's always hypocritical to castigate people for not doing the right thing first time and then further punch them for actually doing the right thing eventually. There's not one of us who has not missed the boat, regretted it and tried to make up for a mistake. Not such a horrible mistake, no doubt - not for such an awful and deliberate cover up of crime, quite so.

But this smacks a lot of blaming the Obama (or Trump), or Biden administration for Sand Creek or slavery. Apparently the 21st century US administrations were not actually alive and participating in those events

MajGenl.Meade wrote: ↑

Tue May 24, 2022 2:02 pm

Unlike Nixon and the Roman Church, the SBC (too late and/or better late than never) instigated the independent investigation and exposure of the grim truth. But we don't want to emphasize something like that, do we?

The first paragraph and a subsequent paragraph of the actual report executive summary read as follows:

For almost two decades, survivors of abuse and other concerned Southern Baptists have been contacting the Southern Baptist Convention (“SBC”) Executive Committee (“EC”) to report child molesters and other abusers who were in the pulpit or employed as church staff. They made phone calls, mailed letters, sent emails, appeared at SBC and EC meetings, held rallies, and contacted the press...only to be met, time and time again, with resistance, stonewalling, and even outright hostility from some within the EC.

. . .

Finally, at the 2021 Nashville Convention, calls for reform reached a crescendo – the Messengers

[in the SBC 'Messengers' are voting members for the various constituent churches]

overwhelmingly voted to approve a Task Force to supervise an independent investigation into the EC’s handling of sexual abuse allegations. The Motion called for inquiry into the actions and decisions of EC staff and members from January 1, 2000, to June 14, 2021, with respect to allegations of abuse, mishandling of abuse, mistreatment of victims, patterns of intimidation of victims or advocates, and resistance to sexual abuse reform initiatives.

As you note SBC 'instigated' the investigation. They did not suddenly discover that there was a problem - they eventually bowed to the inevitable and prodded and/or financed (i.e., instigated) the investigation.

Edited once for clarity.

It's always hypocritical to castigate people for not doing the right thing first time and then further punch them for actually doing the right thing eventually.

You're right, of course, but I have seen no one do that here. I am just saying what they are doing now does not excuse or erase what they did before, and that is what should be "emphasized". I refuse to condemn (or "punch" as you put it) them for supporting an independent investigation; that's the first good thing they did.

As for

But this smacks a lot of blaming the Obama (or Trump), or Biden administration for Sand Creek or slavery

, I fail to see your point. Those events occurred over 150 years ago when none of those presidents were even alive; the SBC abuse/coverup scandal occurred over the last 40 or so years, when many of the same leaders were in positions of responsibility. Pretty silly cpomparison IMHO.

Churches have nothing and nobody to blame but themselves for the steep decline in attendance in recent years.