The power of prayer . . .

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ex-khobar Andy
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The power of prayer . . .

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Enoch City, in SW Utah, where a family of 8 (3 adults, 5 kids) were found shot to death yesterday.

From the piece:
[City Manager Rob] Dotson noted it will take time to determine what happened inside the home. Investigators from Iron County, Enoch City and Cedar City are working together to find answers, he said.

“We won’t know the mindsets, the thoughts, of the individuals who experienced this tragedy. But we all can pray that their families and the neighbors can come to an understanding of what happened in this place, probably within a day or two or maybe longer,” Dotson said.

Utah Gov. Spencer Cox asked the public to keep the Enoch community in their prayers.

“Our hearts go out to all those affected by this senseless violence,” Cox said in a tweet Wednesday.

Utah Lt. Gov. Deidre Henderson also offered her condolences in a tweet saying, “What a tragedy. I’m praying for the community of Enoch tonight.”

CNN reached out to Enoch City Police for more information.
So the City Manager, the Lt Governor and the Governor are all praying. I don't see any suggestions about gun control.

Burning Petard
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Re: The power of prayer . . .

Post by Burning Petard »

I am certain in my own mind that this wonderful family is now basking in the love of their larger spiritual family up in heaven in that divine City of Enoch.

snailgate.

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: The power of prayer . . .

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Whenever something like this happens, as has been noted, there are the usual declarations of "thoughts and prayers".

Just what are they praying for, and what are they thinking??
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BoSoxGal
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Re: The power of prayer . . .

Post by BoSoxGal »

There’s a dumbass piece on the Boston Globe website asserting we must acknowledge the power of prayer re: Damar Hamlin

Bollocks!

I acknowledge the science educated persons on the field medical team, the EMS and hospital staff who resuscitated him and will be responsible for any further recovery he makes. The love and support of his family is impactful as well.

Apparently there has been a massive outpouring of financial support for this player’s endorsed charity his hometown - a GoFundMe with a few hundred dollars for toys for poor kids now has 6 million plus donations, a huge windfall for GoFundMe and it says what else exactly? That this player’s heart stopping is what moves a bunch of wealthy people and many struggling people to part with cash for toys for other people’s kids? How many of those same people hold the view that poor people shouldn’t have kids they can’t afford - like Damar Hamlin’s mother did as a teenager?

I get feeling really gross about all the contradictions embodied in this situation. Adding the notion that prayers for Damar Hamlin are being heard while prayers for the raped and mass murdered Ukrainian children and women aren’t just makes me seethe. Fuck that BS. Don’t pray - ACT!
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: The power of prayer . . .

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:50 pm
Adding the notion that prayers for Damar Hamlin are being heard while prayers for the raped and mass murdered Ukrainian children and women aren’t just makes me seethe.
It's likely that many people had never heard of this GoFundme for kids. This near-tragedy brought it to their attention and they are moved to give what they can. How strange to berate and belittle people who ARE giving rather than simply praying and then urging that people should "ACT" rather than pray. Be thankful they gave - what was our response by the way?

On the quoted piece above, I'm a bit lost. Where do I find someone claiming that prayers for the footballer are "being heard" while prayers for RAMMUCAW are not? Is there a link to such an awful claim?

Thank you
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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BoSoxGal
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Re: The power of prayer . . .

Post by BoSoxGal »

MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:24 pm
BoSoxGal wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:50 pm
Adding the notion that prayers for Damar Hamlin are being heard while prayers for the raped and mass murdered Ukrainian children and women aren’t just makes me seethe.
It's likely that many people had never heard of this GoFundme for kids. This near-tragedy brought it to their attention and they are moved to give what they can. How strange to berate and belittle people who ARE giving rather than simply praying and then urging that people should "ACT" rather than pray. Be thankful they gave - what was our response by the way?

On the quoted piece above, I'm a bit lost. Where do I find someone claiming that prayers for the footballer are "being heard" while prayers for RAMMUCAW are not? Is there a link to such an awful claim?

Thank you
The only power in prayer is for the simple minds who believe in benevolent sky fairies. It has zero effect on the outcome of anything in the real world.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: The power of prayer . . .

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 7:07 pm
MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 6:24 pm
BoSoxGal wrote:
Thu Jan 05, 2023 4:50 pm
Adding the notion that prayers for Damar Hamlin are being heard while prayers for the raped and mass murdered Ukrainian children and women aren’t just makes me seethe.
It's likely that many people had never heard of this GoFundme for kids. This near-tragedy brought it to their attention and they are moved to give what they can. How strange to berate and belittle people who ARE giving rather than simply praying and then urging that people should "ACT" rather than pray. Be thankful they gave - what was our response by the way?

On the quoted piece above, I'm a bit lost. Where do I find someone claiming that prayers for the footballer are "being heard" while prayers for RAMMUCAW are not? Is there a link to such an awful claim?

Thank you
The only power in prayer is for the simple minds who believe in benevolent sky fairies. It has zero effect on the outcome of anything in the real world.
Yes, I was not asking about your known expertise in whether or not prayer is effective. I was instead asking where do you get the news that someone asserts that prayers for the dead in Ukraine are NOT being heard while prayers for the football chap ARE being heard? Who is saying that, other than yourself?
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: The power of prayer . . .

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

It's difficult to make this point without sounding like an asshole but I will try. By all accounts Damar Hamlin is a good kid who seems to have his head screwed on straight unlike many athletes. I am no sort of football fan but I did live in Buffalo for 25 years and now I live in college basketball mad Kentucky where NFL affections if any are directed at nearby Cincinnati. So I turned on the game maybe 3/4 hour into it, in time to see the aftermath.

Buffalo has had a very hard time of it lately. 39 or more dead in that Christmas storm - some died in their cars waiting for emergency services that ever came. And then five kids were killed in a house fire on New Year's Eve.

Now the asshole part. I just do not understand why we have almost minute by minute coverage of a young man who was probably well remunerated for playing a very hard contact sport where injuries - thankfully not usually so drastic - are common. He appears to be getting better and I am thankful for that although, as BSG says, it is no doubt due to the presence of some very capable medical personnel literally seconds away when it happened. Meanwhile - a few days earlier - 44 people dead who probably assumed that they would see 2023 and maybe some of them were even looking forward to the game. And those 44 have seen nothing like the wall-to-wall coverage Mr Hamlin got.

Having said I don't understand it, I do, of course. But I wish it were not that way.

Big RR
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Re: The power of prayer . . .

Post by Big RR »

The two differences I see are proximity (someone injured in a car accident down the block will raise your concern much more than even someone else miles away) and the rarity of the occurrence. For proximity, while it is true it didn't happen down the block, it did happen on live on nationwide TV (and, in a way, in viewer's living rooms) aand serious injuries like this are thankfully rare in football; iIndeed, the faces of the players show how rare serious injuries like this are. It's kind of like when the kids were trapped in the cave in Thailand--how many kids in that region die every day due to disease or mistreatment and no one notices--but kids trapped in a cave get international coverage.

In any event, I think it does bring out the best in many of us; face it, the guy was a pretty obscure player that many never even heard of (that's true of most defensive players), so I doubt many heard of his go fund me campaign; and if the money raised helps others, all the better. I'm not defending the coverage, but it's just the way things work. Remember, we saw a lot of coverage of the situation in the Ukraine before it continued for along time.

And BSG,
How many of those same people hold the view that poor people shouldn’t have kids they can’t afford
, I hold that. Not that I think they should be proscribed by law from having them (or the kids should be denied basic needs because their parents didn't/don't provide for them), but I do think that there is a moral obligation that you should not have kids you cannot afford to care for (or have the time to care for, for that matter), and you should take steps to protect your children in the event that something catastrophic happens; but I still donate to charities helping children--IMHO it's a responsibility we all have as human beings.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: The power of prayer . . .

Post by BoSoxGal »

Ah, okay. Then the poor don’t get the privilege of having children and posterity. Yeah that’s the ugly truth of how far too many people participating in capitalism think. Getting back to the theme of the thread, I wonder how anyone who thinks that way can call themselves a Christian given how it negates the essential teachings of Christ. But whatever, as with most fairytales the center doesn’t hold.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

Big RR
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Re: The power of prayer . . .

Post by Big RR »

I wonder how anyone who thinks that way can call themselves a Christian given how it negates the essential teachings of Christ
I'm not sure how it negates the teachings of Christ, but then I would think it depends how one envisions prayer. Certainly sssing god as a magic genie who will grant your wishes if you pray hard enough (or are somehow "worthy") is contrary to those teachings, but that is not the only way prayer is viewed among all christians or even most religions.

And as for
the poor don’t get the privilege of having children and posterity
; I'm not quite sure what posterity is, but I think, poor or rich, children are much more of a responsibility than anything else. Those who have children have e a responsibility to care for them--and that care goes far beyond providing for them monetarily--I know a number of people who don't take that responsibility seriously (indeed, some wo just ignore it), and I personally think that's wrong as well. And if they do not or cannot, as human beings we must take up that responsibility. Posterity can take care of itself.

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MajGenl.Meade
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Re: The power of prayer . . .

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

BoSoxGal wrote:
Fri Jan 06, 2023 4:17 pm
Getting back to the theme of the thread, I wonder how anyone who thinks that way can call themselves a Christian given how it negates the essential teachings of Christ.
Who is it doing this thinking and what is "that way"?

Thus far, only one person has made a statement with the meaning that (someone somewhere????) has said that "God hears prayers for a football player but doesn't hear prayers for murdered etc. women and children in Ukraine". I have asked who else has made such a reprehensible claim and the reply has been . . .
<crickets>
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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