Plan B Forum

Jordan Peterson thinks he knows more about what it means to be a Christian than the Pope. The guy is clearly letting the cult of incels who hang on his every word get to his already swollen head.



Has the guy ever picked up a Bible, let alone opened it?

Well, I agree with Dr. Peterson. All that stuff that Frankie the Pope was talking about is the sort of things Jesus advocated, you know, feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit those in prison. . . Christianity is a human social organization concerned primarily with selling a product and maintaining its executives in the manner to which they have been accustomed; and just surviving without going to jail for mismanaging somebody else's money or pedophilia.

My hero, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, hoped for a day when people could do that Jesus stuff without interference from Christianity..

snailgate

Late stage capitalism GOP Sermon on the Mount: Aw c’mon, it’s always been that way.

The quotes are about completely different things. They are not contradictory. Redemptive salvation is a personal and internal event. Social justice is an external collective one. I am astonished at the lengths and distortions people go to to try and find something to condemn Jordan Peterson for. I dislike Ben Shapiro for some of his attitudes but I can do so without lying about his character or inventing psychological flaws to attribute to him. We need honest intellectuals,

Personally I am grateful for Jordan pointing out some the most embarrassing modern foolishness on the left-liberal side. Our house needed cleaning and no. One had the courage and mental clarity to do it.

Peterson is a liberal and a better one than his critics.

People whose foolishness has been pointed out can be vicious and often unreasoning.

Yrs,
Rubato

In the sense rubato uses, that's correct. Christianity does not have a monopoly on doing justice - Moslems do it, Jews do it, atheists do it, maybe even the birds and bees do it. However, our ground for moral and ethical activity does differ.

Micah (the Hebrew prophet) wrote: "He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the Lord require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" (6:8). Whether land redistribution and other specific "social justice" items fall under this rubric, the fact is that no faith/belief system has an exhaustive list of what "justice" is or how it is to be applied and by whom.

Christian people, in common with non-Christians, do justice while on earth because such things are universally true, not because they are peculiarly "Christian" truths.

What is common to all peoples cannot be boxed as "Christianity" any more than it can as "Sikh" or "Hindu" or "whatever. It is only what is unique to a faith/belief system that properly delineates that faith/belief from others. So, personal salvation and how it is obtained is the distinguishing feature of Christianity. Others have other approaches or none at all to such matters.

None of it has anything to do with ignorant memes and stupid accusations about anyone's faith/belief system

rubato wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 13, 2023 11:26 am

I am astonished at the lengths and distortions people go to to try and find something to condemn Jordan Peterson for.

The quote says, "There is nothing Christian about social justice", and he made it in response to the Pope promoting social justice as a Christian duty. So what am I supposed to be distorting, again?

Sense and meaning. That is what you are distorting. And I have proved it.

rubato wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:10 pm

Sense and meaning. That is what you are distorting. And I have proved it.

Sense and meaning. That is what you are distorting. And I have proved it.

People, ok I really mean morons, have decided to revile JK Rowling because they disagree with her definition of woman. Even though her definition is reasonable and inoffensive. Similarly, people revile Jordan Peterson even though hie has never said the things he is accosted of.

I find lying offensive. Apparently you do not.

Yrs,
Rubato

A look inside the mind of Jordan Peterson - make of it what you will.

https://newrepublic.com/article/156829/ ... n-peterson

This reminds me of a story I heard on the news last week about evangelical pastors who are being assailed by their congregants for teaching woke liberal BS like the Beatitudes.

https://www.newsweek.com/evangelicals-r ... or-1818706

Belief in Christ AND social justice work are the two coequal pillars of Christianity. I have never understood the people who call themselves Christian and yet argue that belief in Christ alone is adequate to wear the label.

BoSoxGal wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:08 pm

This reminds me of a story I heard on the news last week about evangelical pastors who are being assailed by their congregants for teaching woke liberal BS like the Beatitudes.

https://www.newsweek.com/evangelicals-r ... or-1818706

Belief in Christ AND social justice work are the two coequal pillars of Christianity. I have never understood the people who call themselves Christian and yet argue that belief in Christ alone is adequate to wear the label.

While it's true that Jesus was not a 'Christian', he told the guilty man beside him on another cross - one who admitted his own unrighteousness and presumably lack of social justice - that he would, totally without self merit, be with Jesus in paradise. Make of it what we will.

My son accepted Christ (total shock to us) on his death-bed without managing anything in the social justice area. The entire (entire) point of Christianity is that the creator God loves us and forgives us our sins, regardless of how good or bad we've been, if we acknowledge Him as God and believe that salvation is through the work of Christ - not my work, nor yours, nor the Pope's, nor this Jordan person.

You appear to believe that Jesus should have declared that only those who have done "enough good stuff" are to be saved. Which would make you a good deal harsher than him (or me). Some of the nasty people of history (which is about all of us at last count) such as Luther, Augustine, Wesley, Calvin, Barth were unable to quantify how many good works were enough - Paul's letter to the Romans set their hearts at ease.

I agree with you unreservedly that Christians are enjoined by Christ to do good works on earth. The day of judgement is coming for those who call him Lord but make it a practice to not help the least of his sisters and brothers.

[[It's hardly surprising that within the church as well as without there are Trumpian asshats who cannot recognize truth. Not one of the Evangelicals I know would dismiss the Sermon on the Mount as false "today"]]

I see a manifest difference between a deathbed conversion, or the possibility that a reprehensible individual might nevertheless still find a place at the feet of Christ in the afterlife, and the self proclaimed Christian who neverthless eschews social justice. I think you said that you do, too. So we have a rare moment of agreement.

rubato wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:32 pm

Sense and meaning. That is what you are distorting. And I have proved it.

So when Peterson quotes the Pope promoting social justice, and says in response, "There is nothing Christian about social justice", I am supposed to believe he doesn't actually mean that. Gotcha, thanks for clearing that up.

Peterson did not say that redemptive salvation and social justice coexist within Christianity. He expressly excluded social justice as having any part in Christianity. And that is bullshit.

The quote. Is very short and without any context. There is not enough to infer any meaning. I noticed that he wrote #social Justice so he may have been referring to a group or movement rather than the idea of social Justice just as #me too is different from me too.

I have never seen him disparage social Justice and find the idea that he would do so vanishingly implausible.

The # (hashtag) is used on the internet to designate a specific topic, so "#SocialJustice" means Social Justice.

BoSoxGal wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 14, 2023 2:59 pm

I see a manifest difference between a deathbed conversion, or the possibility that a reprehensible individual might nevertheless still find a place at the feet of Christ in the afterlife, and the self proclaimed Christian who neverthless eschews social justice. I think you said that you do, too. So we have a rare moment of agreement.

Indeed but I would not presume to judge those whose failures may be more or less than my own. We may agree on the principle of "social justice" while disagreeing on the details.

For example, reparations for slavery are a non-starter in my bailiwick. Were it possible to retrospectively provide 40 acres and a mule to those who were actually slaves, then I'd be happy to stump up the odd bit of sod or portion of a jackass to those deserving of same. Today's fellow Americans are lucky to be here and not back over there (wherever 'there' is). Unless they'd like to be - but I see no signs of enthusiasm for return to the Old Country or continent as it were. In the absence of reparations for being Indian, Irish or Jewish, etc. let's just get on with fixing today rather than replaying 150+ years ago.

BoSoxGal wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 14, 2023 12:36 pm

A look inside the mind of Jordan Peterson - make of it what you will.

https://newrepublic.com/article/156829/ ... n-peterson

The article.is inaccurate and not a guide to his thinking at all. He has.hundreds of hours of recorded lectures and interviews.

Yrs,
Rubato

rubato wrote: ↑

Tue Aug 15, 2023 2:04 am

The quote. Is very short and without any context.

The quote is precisely how he wrote it, in its entirety, and is presented in the context in which he wrote it (in response to the Pope's tweet). If he didn't intend his words to mean what they say, then he should have used different words.

I think you have.misconstrued his meaning due to brevity. One can say “cows are not camels” without any ill will to either one.

In any case he has a large body work which contradicts your interpretation.

Yrs,
Rubato