God & Country
Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2024 2:59 pm
Plan B Forum
have fun, relax, but above all ARGUE!
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God & Country
http://www.theplanbforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=23364
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Re: God & Country
Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2024 1:53 am
what about family?
Re: God & Country
Posted: Sat May 11, 2024 8:06 pm
This film released on Kanopy (free library streaming service) this week and I’m watching it now.
Definitely a must see, people!
Definitely a must see, people!
Re: God & Country
Posted: Sat May 11, 2024 8:38 pm
OK, BSG, I can agree on the danger, even the anti-Christianity, of American Christian Nationalism. But I find I am jumping through the hoop of 'anti-semitism' which seems to encompass any non-support of the State of Israel's foreign policy. The evil of the shoa seems to be a 'get out of jail free' card for anything done today under the flag of modern Israel. I have a hat pin of a slice of watermelon (symbolic of support for Palestine) but I have not worn it.
snailgate.
snailgate.
Re: God & Country
Posted: Sat May 11, 2024 9:16 pm
Keep jumping thru the imaginary hoop.But I find I am jumping through the hoop of 'anti-semitism' which seems to encompass any non-support of the State of Israel's foreign policy.
Re: God & Country
Posted: Sat May 11, 2024 10:27 pm
I’m still watching the film because I took a break to go to early bird dinner - I’m officially a geezer, I don’t eat past 6:30pm - and, I have to reiterate, it must be seen.
It’s chilling to realize how deeply disconnected one America is from the other America. I spent some time in the 80s attending conservative Christian churches with school friends - part of my religious exploration which happened because my own family quit church altogether (laziness not lack of faith) and I felt keenly the absence of it.
I also have had conservative Christian friends believe it or not through university education and beyond, and my sister’s family is First Baptist - she actually married the pastor’s son.
So I knew something more than most about this world but I think most Americans are very tuned out from the rumbling force that is conservative Christian nationalism until the shock of Dobbs killing Roe.
I have genuine fear about this country falling to theocracy. I believe religion can be a force for good and I think many religious people are actually very fine people - but this brand of fear stoked fervor promising to wipe out vermin that is destroying America - that’s clearly the edge of insanity. But it is not so rare, and the way our electoral system is designed and implemented via congressional districting it is a massively possible consequence that the minority conservative Christians and their political arm could have power over the much much larger majority of Americans who believe in liberal democracy.
Gilead on the horizon, people.
It’s chilling to realize how deeply disconnected one America is from the other America. I spent some time in the 80s attending conservative Christian churches with school friends - part of my religious exploration which happened because my own family quit church altogether (laziness not lack of faith) and I felt keenly the absence of it.
I also have had conservative Christian friends believe it or not through university education and beyond, and my sister’s family is First Baptist - she actually married the pastor’s son.
So I knew something more than most about this world but I think most Americans are very tuned out from the rumbling force that is conservative Christian nationalism until the shock of Dobbs killing Roe.
I have genuine fear about this country falling to theocracy. I believe religion can be a force for good and I think many religious people are actually very fine people - but this brand of fear stoked fervor promising to wipe out vermin that is destroying America - that’s clearly the edge of insanity. But it is not so rare, and the way our electoral system is designed and implemented via congressional districting it is a massively possible consequence that the minority conservative Christians and their political arm could have power over the much much larger majority of Americans who believe in liberal democracy.
Gilead on the horizon, people.
Re: God & Country
Posted: Sun May 12, 2024 3:33 am
They certainly scare me. I find their biblical understanding to be limited, false, racist, and in a word reprehensible. Even the notion that God cares more for America than . . . . anywhere else on earth . . . is repugnant.
Re: God & Country
Posted: Sun May 12, 2024 11:46 am
Yes, this. It gives me a sick stomach to think about what a theocratic fascist America might do in the world.MajGenl.Meade wrote: ↑Sun May 12, 2024 3:33 amThey certainly scare me. I find their biblical understanding to be limited, false, racist, and in a word reprehensible. Even the notion that God cares more for America than . . . . anywhere else on earth . . . is repugnant.
Re: God & Country
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 2:47 am
What precisely is it that you believed they might do if they ever gained power? I admit that I really don’t know much about them, but in my own church I’ve heard phrases like God has blessed America and Americans are God’s people. I’ve also heard it said that God has cursed America for falling away.BoSoxGal wrote: ↑Sat May 11, 2024 10:27 pmI’m still watching the film because I took a break to go to early bird dinner - I’m officially a geezer, I don’t eat past 6:30pm - and, I have to reiterate, it must be seen.
It’s chilling to realize how deeply disconnected one America is from the other America. I spent some time in the 80s attending conservative Christian churches with school friends - part of my religious exploration which happened because my own family quit church altogether (laziness not lack of faith) and I felt keenly the absence of it.
I also have had conservative Christian friends believe it or not through university education and beyond, and my sister’s family is First Baptist - she actually married the pastor’s son.
So I knew something more than most about this world but I think most Americans are very tuned out from the rumbling force that is conservative Christian nationalism until the shock of Dobbs killing Roe.
I have genuine fear about this country falling to theocracy. I believe religion can be a force for good and I think many religious people are actually very fine people - but this brand of fear stoked fervor promising to wipe out vermin that is destroying America - that’s clearly the edge of insanity. But it is not so rare, and the way our electoral system is designed and implemented via congressional districting it is a massively possible consequence that the minority conservative Christians and their political arm could have power over the much much larger majority of Americans who believe in liberal democracy.
Gilead on the horizon, people.
Re: God & Country
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 3:47 am
This don't seem so bad; I didn't see anything concerning concentration camps, castration, or reestablishing slavery. And as long as the Constitution is in effect there's only so much that any government can do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_nationalism
Christian nationalism
Christian nationalism is a type of religious nationalism that is affiliated with Christianity. It primarily focuses on the internal politics of society, such as legislating civil and criminal laws that reflect their view of Christianity and the role of religion/s in political and social life.[1]
In countries with a state church, Christian nationalists seek to preserve the status of a Christian state by holding an antidisestablishmentarian position to perpetuate the Church in national politics.[2][3][4]
Part of a series on
Nationalism
Christian nationalism supports the presence of Christian symbols in the public square, and state patronage for the practice and display of religion, such as Christmas as a national holiday, school prayer, the exhibition of nativity scenes during Christmastide, and the Christian Cross on Good Friday.[5][6] Christian nationalism draws political support from the broader Christian right, but not exclusively, given the broad support for observing Christmas as a national holiday in many countries.[
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_nationalism
Christian nationalism
Christian nationalism is a type of religious nationalism that is affiliated with Christianity. It primarily focuses on the internal politics of society, such as legislating civil and criminal laws that reflect their view of Christianity and the role of religion/s in political and social life.[1]
In countries with a state church, Christian nationalists seek to preserve the status of a Christian state by holding an antidisestablishmentarian position to perpetuate the Church in national politics.[2][3][4]
Part of a series on
Nationalism
Christian nationalism supports the presence of Christian symbols in the public square, and state patronage for the practice and display of religion, such as Christmas as a national holiday, school prayer, the exhibition of nativity scenes during Christmastide, and the Christian Cross on Good Friday.[5][6] Christian nationalism draws political support from the broader Christian right, but not exclusively, given the broad support for observing Christmas as a national holiday in many countries.[
Re: God & Country
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 3:01 pm
Once again, lib labels utterly anti-Constitutional action as "not so bad". Answer this lib: are you happy if the government authorizes compulsory state/public funding of Islam, Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, Judaism, Shinto, Satanism, Rastafarianism, Mormonism, Witnessism, as well as all the Christian sects and an unending number of others that I can't be bothered to list . . . are you happy with that? How about if all THEIR holidays must be days-off with pay for all USian workers? You want all THEIR symbols displayed all over the place - FUNDED BY THE US TAXPAYER, STATE AND FEDERAL? Really? Suddenly you want so-called Christians to run the place and the hell with everyone else? A dead Constitution?Christian nationalism supports the presence of Christian symbols in the public square, and state patronage for the practice and display of religion, such as Christmas as a national holiday, school prayer, the exhibition of nativity scenes during Christmastide, and the Christian Cross on Good Friday
That's "not so bad"??
As to your ridiculous faith that the Constitution stops anything at all - you're out to lunch. The Const. is a document - it has no power in and of itself to do anything. It's enforced by people who (like people everywhere) will do as they wish and as they are commanded and as they fear. With Trump as President we should all fear because he will fire as many civil servants as he can and put his arse-licking lunatic pals in their place. That'll change how America is governed all right. But you go ahead and cheer on Marjorie Taylor Greene who is one of the greatest threats to America along with all her little pals (and the Don), Gaetz, Jordan and the entire crowd of fascist pigs.
Re: God & Country
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 4:16 pm
Not to mention that the other problem, form a religion's point of view, is that when you invite the government to interact with religion and endorse it, you run the real risk of having government dictate religious doctrine (or at least acceptable religious doctrines)--so in school prayerleads o the government prescribing what an acceptable prayer is--from how the deity is addressed, etc. Ditto for recognizing religious symbols--what sort of symbols will be accepted and what will not. Not only do I not want religion in my government, I don't want government in my religion.
Re: God & Country
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 6:19 pm
Well yes, exactly BigRR. And that's what the Christian nationalist/right want. Government funded Christian display - not religious freedom or even religious display. Strictly their definition of Christ which most certainly is not biblical (even though you and I probably don't agree about what is 'biblical' we may be OK about what isn't 
)
)Re: God & Country
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 6:27 pm
No argument there--I'm more than willing to embrace diversity of views; and, IMHO, the "christian" nationalists are entitled to their own views as well. But letting the government weigh in on what is acceptable is a double edged sword. I can't see why they'd take that chance, but I guess they're wagering that the government would endorse their views.
Re: God & Country
Posted: Mon May 13, 2024 10:27 pm
Big RR - yeah, but whose views are "their" views? (They might want to be careful what they wish for?)
lib - would you really find it "not so bad" if the largest Christian denomination in the U.S. were the one calling the shots?According to membership statistics from current reports and official web sites, the five largest Christian denominations are:
● The Catholic Church in the United States, 71,000,000 members
● The Southern Baptist Convention, 13,680,493 members
● The National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc., 8,415,100 members
● The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, 6,920,086 members
● The United Methodist Church, 5,714,815 members
Re: God & Country
Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 12:59 pm
I might think it "not so bad" if Christmas was a Federal holiday; that some Christian symbols were welcomed generally on state property and so on. What's that got to do with anything?
What's "bad" is the desire to pervert the Constitution full stop, period,end of argument.
What's "bad" is the desire to pervert the Constitution full stop, period,end of argument.
Re: God & Country
Posted: Tue May 14, 2024 1:22 pm
Meade--Last I checked, Christmas is a federal holiday, but your point is well taken. Then again, I think it's all part of the same plan, or at least the way it is marketed--the mythical "war" on Christmas or christianity is used as a rallying cry to get the masses to line up behind a lot of the idiotic positions they take.
To give you an example, I recall being in a lutheran church in the 80s (when this issue was in the news) and the minister brought up the Satanic messages in the Proctor and Gamble trademark; he even ent into detail saying that the moon was a satanic symbol and the 13 stars (repesenting the original 13 colonies as I recall) were chosen to emphasize the anti Christian stance. He then wen to quote an event that never happened, saying the CEO of P&G said at an on air interview said they would never change the trademark, and there are no enough christians to make a difference,
Now this wasn't in a snake handling church; it was in a community where most were fairly well educated and sophisticated; but instead of laughing at it/rejecting it, people appeared to be significantly upset. I never went back to that church, but it showed me firsthand the power of propaganda, especially when people want to believe they are under attack.
To give you an example, I recall being in a lutheran church in the 80s (when this issue was in the news) and the minister brought up the Satanic messages in the Proctor and Gamble trademark; he even ent into detail saying that the moon was a satanic symbol and the 13 stars (repesenting the original 13 colonies as I recall) were chosen to emphasize the anti Christian stance. He then wen to quote an event that never happened, saying the CEO of P&G said at an on air interview said they would never change the trademark, and there are no enough christians to make a difference,
Now this wasn't in a snake handling church; it was in a community where most were fairly well educated and sophisticated; but instead of laughing at it/rejecting it, people appeared to be significantly upset. I never went back to that church, but it showed me firsthand the power of propaganda, especially when people want to believe they are under attack.
Re: God & Country
Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 10:50 am
It happens everywhere 
Re: God & Country
Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 12:55 pm
can anyone identify that flag for me; it looks like the zimbabwe and south african flags, but is a bit different from each.
Re: God & Country
Posted: Wed May 15, 2024 5:07 pm
I guess it is South Africal; the first flag I saw online must have been an old one.