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The Myth of Jesus

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:51 am
by Sean
I should start by saying that what follows is purely my opinion. I think it likely that there was a historical character named Jesus. The myth in the thread title refers to the myth that has grown around this man over the past two thousand years.

Jesus was likely a preacher in Judea; one of many. He had charisma and a way with words that won him quite a few followers (and more than a few enemies too). The problem arose when he proclaimed himself to be the son of God. Whether or not this was something he actually believed we cannot know. What is certain is that he was not the first, nor indeed the last to claim this kind of divinity.

I do however believe that Jesus may well have been the Messiah. I mean of course, what the word ‘Messiah’ meant in Jesus’ time as opposed to what it means now. The Messiah was foretold as the one who would unite the two Houses of Aaron and David. Contemporary accounts tell of Mary being of the House of Aaron and Joseph of the House of David. Jesus, as the first-born, would thus have been the Messiah. Nothing to do with being the son of God you will notice... In fact the two are mutually exclusive. If Jesus was the Messiah then he was the son of Joseph and not God. You can’t have it both ways...

He did not perform the miracles ascribed to him. His followers would have made up some stories and embellished others to strengthen their case for him as a divine being so as to convert others more easily. To great effect I might add...

Was he married? Very likely so with Mary Magdelene as the prime candidate. Dan Brown reckons they had children, I don’t. I believe that if Jesus had been a father we would have heard a little more about the ‘grandson/daughter of God’.

The bible tells us that Mary was the first person Jesus appeared to after the resurrection. This to me confirms that they were married. After all, if he had appeared to his mates down the Lamb and Flag before his missus she would have crucified him again! ;)

Speaking of the crucifixion and resurrection, he probably was put to death by the Romans. Execution was pretty standard back then for blasphemers and rabble-rousers and Jesus was both of those. So what happened next? The same followers stole his body from the tomb. I like to think that they did this partly out of respect as they knew his tomb would be defiled but the real reason was simple: No body = resurrected Jesus! It would have been easy to convince those who wanted to believe that he truly was the son of God and in fact remains easy to this day.

So there you have it! I believe that he was a man. He was a clever man, an influential man, a man whose heart was probably in the right place (don’t believe those Sacred Heart paintings...).

But when all’s said and done, just a man.

Re: The Myth of Jesus

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:12 pm
by dales
Just what I needed to read on a Sunday morning before heading out to church. :nana

Re: The Myth of Jesus

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:45 pm
by loCAtek
The Bible mentions Jesus’ mother, adoptive father, half-brothers, and half-sisters. Why would it neglect to mention the fact that Jesus had a wife?

I don't know in which order Jesus' disciples came to follow him, but Mary Magdelene wasn't the first. If Jesus and Mary had had a relationship, then at least a few of the other disciplines would have know about it, perhaps been invited to the wedding?

The apostles and later Mary herself, would have to all vow to keep it a secret, but then why leave in his appearing to her?

If he didn't rise from his tomb, then appearing to Mary first is a moot point, anywayZ.

Re: The Myth of Jesus

Posted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:13 pm
by loCAtek
Took a walk, and thought of one more thing;

If the deliberate intent was to portray Jesus as more like the pagan gods ...then shouldn't he have had a wife?

Osiris - married

Zeus - married

Orpheus - married

Dionysus - married

Odin - married.

Krishna - married

Etc.


Most if not all of the pagan gods had wives.

Re: The Myth of Jesus

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:49 am
by Sean
loCAtek wrote:The Bible mentions Jesus’ mother, adoptive father, half-brothers, and half-sisters. Why would it neglect to mention the fact that Jesus had a wife?
By all accounts the bible mentioned a lot of things which the church didn't feel should make the final cut.
I don't know in which order Jesus' disciples came to follow him, but Mary Magdelene wasn't the first. If Jesus and Mary had had a relationship, then at least a few of the other disciplines would have know about it, perhaps been invited to the wedding?
There is a school of thought that believes his wedding took place at Cana. You may have heard of it...
The apostles and later Mary herself, would have to all vow to keep it a secret, but then why leave in his appearing to her?
No secrecy required. See above.
If he didn't rise from his tomb, then appearing to Mary first is a moot point, anywayZ.
Sorry, forgot about your humourectomy. Maybe I should've used more smilies...

Re: The Myth of Jesus

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:01 am
by Sean
loCAtek wrote:Took a walk, and thought of one more thing;

If the deliberate intent was to portray Jesus as more like the pagan gods ...then shouldn't he have had a wife?

Osiris - married

Zeus - married

Orpheus - married

Dionysus - married

Odin - married.

Krishna - married

Etc.


Most if not all of the pagan gods had wives.
Duh! Nobody has said that anyone was trying to portray Jesus as like a pagan God. They used 'borrowed' bits from various Gods to make the heathens more comfortable with the indoctrination transition. Marriage obviously didn't fit in with the masterplan.

Re: The Myth of Jesus

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:40 am
by loCAtek
What was the master plan? Was it all a joke?
Maybe I should've used more smilies...
Then, we needn't take it/you seriously then?

Re: The Myth of Jesus

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:47 am
by Sean
I should've known better than to expect anything approaching a reasoned discussion from you on this...

Re: The Myth of Jesus

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:50 am
by thestoat
Sean wrote:By all accounts the bible mentioned a lot of things which the church didn't feel should make the final cut.
Excellent point. In fact, there were something like 60-80 original gospels, slashed to four by Emperor Constantine (I think it was him?) Some of the others had Jesus as a wicked pixie type of person using magic to turn mud into wine and various other miracles. Many scholars believe that Constantine chose the 4 we now have since they were the closest to each other (sometimes word for word so)

Re: The Myth of Jesus

Posted: Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:58 am
by Crackpot
It was a long process Stoat starting long before Constantine and ending in the 1400's IIRC (the last ones seem to be debating Revelation for the most part) While I'd love to see a list of and read the texts of the ones that didn't make it of the ones I have All save one have been exceedingly Gnostic in nature (you think todays Bible contains contradictions) and the other was a collection of "the one-liners of Jesus" subtracting quotes out of all context.

BTW there is the "Q" Theory behind the Gospels that they were derived from a single source text (especially the Synoptics.)