The myth of Orpheus

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loCAtek
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The myth of Orpheus

Post by loCAtek »

Journey to the Underworld.

First of all, the claim is that pagan myths reflected the cycle of the seasons, with the 'death' of nature in the winter and it's rebirth in the spring.
Probably the best known one to Westerners is the story of Persephone daughter of the goddess of the harvest, Demeter. She was abducted by Hades the king of the underworld and she was taken away to his kingdom. Her mother so grieved her loss that the crops withered and died, and the people began to starve. Zeus went to retrieve Persephone but not before she had eaten six pomegranate seeds. Haven eaten the food of the underworld, Hades said she return to her mother but had to return in six months. So, now every year, the goddess Demeter grieves for six months through Fall and Winter, until her daughter is allowed to return to her in the second half of the year.

Note: Persephone can come and go to the underworld, because she is a living person; she has not died.

Same with Orpheus;
Death of Eurydice

The most famous story in which Orpheus figures is that of his wife Eurydice (also known as Agriope). While walking among her people, the Cicones, in tall grass at her wedding, Eurydice was set upon by a satyr. In her efforts to escape the satyr, Eurydice fell into a nest of vipers and she suffered a fatal bite on her heel. Her body was discovered by Orpheus who, overcome with grief, played such sad and mournful songs that all the nymphs and gods wept. On their advice, Orpheus traveled to the underworld and by his music softened the hearts of Hades and Persephone (he was the only person ever to do so), who agreed to allow Eurydice to return with him to earth on one condition: he should walk in front of her and not look back until they both had reached the upper world. He set off with Eurydice following, and, in his anxiety, as soon as he reached the upper world, he turned to look at her, forgetting that both needed to be in the upper world, and she vanished for the second time, but now forever.
As a living man he journeyed to The Underworld; yet the underworld was not Heaven. In the Underworld, was as it's name suggests, in the Earth and reachable by crossing the river Styx. If a hero or god, was great and beloved, then they could be placed in the Heavens as stars or constellations, but most people descended to the Underworld after death. There they forgot life by drinking from the fountain of forgetfulness.


The reason the average living person couldn't cross the Styx, was because the ferryman would only permit the dead into his boat, but it was a fairly material place, with the deceased eating, drinking and interacting. As the legend goes, if the living ate of the food of the dead, they would become part the Underworld.

Only the living could enter and leave the Underworld, yet that is not the same as dying and resurrecting to life.

Later in myths, Orpheus dies a true death, that he doesn't return from and his lyre is placed in the stars in the Heavens.

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Sean
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by Sean »

Do you have a point?
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?

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loCAtek
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by loCAtek »

It's not Resurrection.

Even in nature, winter is not truly 'death', things live on in dormant states.

The pagans don't call it resurrection; they called it 'magic' or 'mystery'.

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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by Sean »

Once again...

Do you actually have a point here?
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?

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loCAtek
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by loCAtek »

Yes, pagan mythology does not translate to Christianity as suggested. The examples provided have been examined, and in the cases so far, the comparisons are weak. However, I'll be glad to research any more you'd like to add.

One note: it would be best to bring up only the myths that the Christian disciplines were exposed to [Greco-Roman, Middle Eastern, etc.} and not say- Indian or Norse since those would not have been aware of those at all.

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thestoat
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by thestoat »

Er, lo. you are taking all this as a slight on Christianity. That isn't so - Christianity just isn't that important. All religions stole from each other - not just Christianity. Thus Norse influences would have played a role as would old Indian, Egyptian, etc religions. People did travel then - though not using jumbo jets - they were a more modern invention. Throughout history, religions have taken from each other. Christianity is just one of them - a successful one, but not the only one.

And as it happens - you are pretty close to being atheist yourself. Don't forget that. You don't believe (correct me if I am wrong) in Thor, Odin, Mithras, Osiris, etc. The only difference is I do one god more :nana
If a man speaks in the forest and there are no women around to hear is he still wrong?

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Sean
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by Sean »

loCAtek wrote:Yes, pagan mythology does not translate to Christianity as suggested. The examples provided have been examined, and in the cases so far, the comparisons are weak. However, I'll be glad to research any more you'd like to add.
Or to put it more accurately...
The examples cherry-picked by you have been 'examined' by you and although every single one of your arguments has been thoroughly refuted you refuse to accept it.
One note: it would be best to bring up only the myths that the Christian disciplines were exposed to [Greco-Roman, Middle Eastern, etc.} and not say- Indian or Norse since those would not have been aware of those at all.
Of course. I was forgetting that Christians only found out about those mythologies in the last ten years or so... :roll:
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?

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loCAtek
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by loCAtek »

LOL, correct stoat, Buddhists aren't so religious after all, but that's not the point: spirituality is!

So say, when there were no printing presses, let alone internet connections: how did the Celtic hear of the Inuit?

Travel was very slow: hindered by mountain ranges, oceans and not to mention: language barriers. How many Afrikaans were converted to Aztec beliefs? Did the Norse get swayed by Nembutsu? No, those communications would take much time and distance, that wasn't realistically practical at that time at all.

I'll grant you neighbors influence neighbors, but global consensus? That's almost saying 'cosmic unconsciousness'. ;)

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Sean
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by Sean »

Now that is dumb...

Do you think that because Middle Easterners never met Norse people that there was no crossover in their beliefs?

Really?

Because obviously the only way for crossover to happen would be through direct contact... :roll:
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?

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thestoat
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

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Sean just saved me from the response I was going to make. Think about it lo. Ever heard of Chinese whispers?
If a man speaks in the forest and there are no women around to hear is he still wrong?

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loCAtek
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by loCAtek »

Frankly no, pls explain.


...But this all explains Paganism, which is 'Nature Worship', which Christianity is not.

Christianity is monotheistic, not pantheistic.

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Scooter
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by Scooter »

loCAtek wrote:Christianity is monotheistic
Jews, Muslims, and Oneness Christians would disagree.
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose

"Colonialism is not 'winning' - it's an unsustainable model. Like your hairline." -- Candace Linklater

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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by Sean »

loCAtek wrote:Frankly no, pls explain.


...But this all explains Paganism, which is 'Nature Worship', which Christianity is not.

Christianity is monotheistic, not pantheistic.
There you go again... Paganism has absolutely nothing to do with "nature worship". Put simply, it means worshipping a God or Gods that are not the God of Abraham. You claim to be a Buddhist? That being the case you should really be aware that Buddhism is either Pagan or non-theist depending on which angle you approach it from.

I presume, given your ignorance on the subject, that the word you were grasping for was not 'pantheistic' but 'polytheistic'.

Polytheism is easily translated into Monotheism: Most Pagan religions involve a hierarchy of Gosds with one at the top. This is translated into a single God with echelons of angels and saints.
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?

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loCAtek
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by loCAtek »

Wiki
Paganism (from Latin paganus, meaning "country dweller", "rustic"[1]) is a blanket term, typically used to refer to polytheistic religious traditions.
While Buddhist are non=theists, but support the quest of spirituality in any form.

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Sean
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by Sean »

So are you the only Buddhist who believes in God & the divinity of Jesus?
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?

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loCAtek
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by loCAtek »

? Buddhists believe in deities, and the attainment of spirituality with the help of masters, of which Jesus was/s.

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Scooter
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by Scooter »

loCAtek wrote:Buddhist are non=theists
loCAtek wrote:Buddhists believe in deities
Talk out of both sides of your mouth much?
"The dildo of consequence rarely comes lubed." -- Eileen Rose

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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by Sean »

LMAO - Exactly the answer I was expecting.

Tell the truth Lo... You lied about being a Buddhist because you thought it sounded cool didn't you?

You're like all these emo kids who claim to be Wiccans or Satanists... :lol:
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?

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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by Gob »

Scooter wrote:
loCAtek wrote:Buddhist are non=theists
loCAtek wrote:Buddhists believe in deities
Talk out of both sides of your mouth much?

Her mouth? Not at all, out of here; :bw:
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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thestoat
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Re: The myth of Orpheus

Post by thestoat »

Scooter wrote:
loCAtek wrote:Buddhist are non=theists
loCAtek wrote:Buddhists believe in deities
Talk out of both sides of your mouth much?
Utter top stuff ... though she'll either ignore or deny this now ...
If a man speaks in the forest and there are no women around to hear is he still wrong?

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