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Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:06 pm
by Gob
ROME:
Hundreds of thousands of young people descending on Madrid this week for the Catholic Church's World Youth Day - which features processions, group prayers and a mass with Pope Benedict - are to get a ''special'' concession.
Church leaders have ordered that anyone during the event who confesses to having had an abortion - a sin punishable by excommunication - will be welcomed back into the Church.
''Normally, only certain priests have the power to lift such an excommunication but the local diocese has decided to give all the priests taking confession at the event this power,'' said the Pope's spokesman, Father Federico Lombardi.
Two hundred white wooden confession booths have been set up in Madrid's Buen Retiro Park for the event, which started on Monday and runs until Sunday.
Father Lombardi denied the abortion deal was to attract waverers back to the Church.
''With so many young people attending there may be those who have had problems of this kind and it makes sense to reach out to them,'' he said.
The driving force behind the deal is the Archbishop of Madrid, Antonio Maria Rouco Varela, who persuaded the Vatican to offer women who had had abortions access to ''the fruits of divine grace''.
About 1.5 million pilgrims will descend on the city during the World Youth Day celebrations. Young Catholics making the trip to Madrid will also gain a plenary indulgence - effectively a reduction in the time believers spend in purga
Read more:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/concession- ... z1VK3mLIuA
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:09 pm
by Scooter
I think it's probably being done simply as a practical matter rather than as any attempt at "promotion". Among hundreds of thousands of young people coming to confession there are bound to be thousands who will confess an abortion without knowing the particular rules that apply to being absolved and having the excommunication lifted. It could be devastating to be told that they can't be absolved at the time, possibly completely overshadowing whatever spiritual benefit they sought to get out of participating in WYD. It seems the pastoral thing to relax the rules for an event like this.
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:16 pm
by Sean
Has God rubber-stamped these new 'powers'?
What if the sinners eventually turn up at the pearly gates only to be told that the absolution was unauthorised and therefore null?
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:41 pm
by Crackpot
The whole thing only works if you buy into Catholicism's brand of absolution for sin.
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:16 pm
by Gob
I thought it would be more important for god to buy into it..
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:20 pm
by Crackpot
(at east according to my beliefs) God would find it moot.
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:38 pm
by Gob
Interesting concept though, maybe they could set up in competition between churches;
"This week only, confess to four wicked thoughts, get a fifth free!"
"Lusting after your neighbour's daughter, now down to five "hail Mary's""
'Fancy a whole week of swearing at no extra cost, try our "confess now, sin later", offer!"
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:41 pm
by kristina
Gob wrote:Interesting concept though, maybe they could set up in competition between churches;
"This week only, confess to four wicked thoughts, get a fifth free!"
A fifth of whisky, perhaps?
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:48 pm
by Rick
Gob wrote:Interesting concept though, maybe they could set up in competition between churches;
"This week only, confess to four wicked thoughts, get a fifth free!"
"Lusting after your neighbour's daughter, now down to five "hail Mary's""
'Fancy a whole week of swearing at no extra cost, try our "confess now, sin later", offer!"
Actually that is just about what Martin Luther was protesting.
Back in the day they used to "pay" for their sins.
"The sale of indulgence"...
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:29 am
by rubato
How much would I have to kick in to get absolved for helping to pay for hundreds of abortions?
yrs,
rubato
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:01 pm
by dgs49
The power to forgive sins was given directly to the Apostles by Christ, as anyone with even a passing knowledge of the NT is aware.
Allowing absolution for abortion is a wonderful grace that will bring comfort to - no doubt - thousands of girls attending the event.
Only a self-delusional idiot could possibly believe that killing a baby in the womb is anything other than a very serious sin (or whatever word you choose to use).
rubato, there can be no forgiveness for sins unless the confessing sinner is sorry and promises not to do it again. For those who revel in paying for abortions - knowing that most of them are given to minorities - there can be no forgiveness without a change of heart. And that applies whether you are a Catholic, a Prod, a Jew, or an atheist. Evil is evil.
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:59 pm
by Crackpot
dgs49 wrote:The power to forgive sins was given directly to the Apostles by Christ, as anyone with even a passing knowledge of the NT is aware.
Perhaps you could point it out then?
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:26 pm
by Scooter
He is referring to John 20:23. That is a dubious interpretation of that verse, particularly since the general term "disciples" was used, rather than something that would specify the Apostles (such as the "Twelve"). The
New Jerome Biblical Commentary (a Roman Catholic source) says:
This "power" of forgiveness is probably expressed in the bestowing of the Spirit on those who believe as a result of the disciples' "mission" and who join the community rather than in a process of dealing with Christians who have committed sin (as in Matt 18:19).
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:42 pm
by rubato
The majority of abortions are for white women.
Lean a few facts?
yrs,
rubato
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:15 pm
by oldr_n_wsr
As a "Recovering Catholic" (yes I took that from Steve) I find all of this ..... humorous.
My father, who is "very Catholic" finds faults with the churches beliefs. I think all Catholics do. And those that don't, I would like to meet them and have them fill out a questionaire.
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:38 pm
by loCAtek
A lot of my Dad's side of the family are very Catholic, they learned it from my devote Grandfather. While my dad went agnostic after marrying my mother the atheist, a few years ago (ten?) he started studying the old beliefs again.
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:07 am
by dgs49
John 20:23
American Standard Version
Whose soever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whose soever'sins ye retain, they are retained.
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:39 am
by Sean
Crackpot wrote:dgs49 wrote:The power to forgive sins was given directly to the Apostles by Christ, as anyone with even a passing knowledge of the NT is aware.
Perhaps you could point it out then?
The point I made was that Jesus obviously didn't give the power to all priests to forgive certain sins. That power was given to these priests by the local diocese.
I just hope they cleared it with the boss first.
Or maybe he's sending out memos these days...
Re: Get out of hell free card.
Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:46 am
by Crackpot
dgs49 wrote:John 20:23
American Standard Version
Whose soever sins ye forgive, they are forgiven unto them; whose soever'sins ye retain, they are retained.
Scooter came up with that one on the 18 of last month. (along with a Roman Catholic source denying your interpretation)
My understanding of the relationship between sin and the believer comes from Romans.
Summed up in a verse:
Romans 10
But if Christ is in you, then even though your body is subject to death because of sin, the Spirit gives life because of righteousness.