Caution, Jews crossing road...

[Gob]

Britain is to get its first ‘hands-free’ pedestrian crossing – so that devout Jews do not have to break a religious law that prohibits them from using electricity or operating machinery on the Sabbath.

The crossing is near a busy synagogue, and pressing a button to operate it is considered a breach of the strict rules that apply to Orthodox Jews.

Traffic will be held every 90 seconds from Friday evening until nightfall on Saturday, covering the Jewish Sabbath period.

The crossing will be situated on one of London’s busiest roads – the North Circular at the Henlys Corner junction. But planners insist it will not cause traffic chaos.

The system will come into operation in December when the junction fully reopens after a massive ten-month upgrade costing £8 million.

The decision to include automatic crossings was taken after leaders at Finchley United Synagogue explained their predicament to staff at Transport for London, which is responsible for maintaining main roads in the capital. TfL says the ‘hands-free’ green man has not added to the cost of improvements.

A spokesman said: ‘We always consult with the community over major road projects. This idea was suggested by the synagogue, whose members asked if it could be done. We thought about it and came to the conclusion that it could.’

The crossing is near a busy synagogue, and pressing a button to operate it is considered a breach of the strict rules that apply to Orthodox Jews.

The crossing is near a busy synagogue, and pressing a button to operate it is considered a breach of the strict rules that apply to Orthodox Jews

No one at the synagogue was available for comment because of the Jewish New Year. But one of the congregation said: ‘This is a sensible idea that will make a real difference.’

The move follows the controversial formation of an eruv – a boundary recognised by Jewish law within which certain activities are permitted – in the same part of North London.

Although observant Jews are allowed to carry household objects such as door keys, and to push prams and wheelchairs within the six-square-mile area, they are still banned from using electricity.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1Zfarb4TF

[Scooter]

This, along with related crap like Sabbath elevators, is the sort of thing that makes Judaism look ridiculous. You can push a stroller, but not a button operating a traffic signal. Which requires more "work" and should therefore be shunned on the Sabbath?

[dales]

WWJD?

[GrossDad]

This, along with related crap like Sabbath elevators, is the sort of thing that makes Judaism look ridiculous. You can push a stroller, but not a button operating a traffic signal. Which requires more "work" and should therefore be shunned on the Sabbath?

That's for arbiters of Jewish canon law (halacha) to decide. And not all Jews follow halacha to the same extent. Nor do all flavors of Judaism concur.

[thestoat]

Don't install them and let Darwinism take its course, I say

[Sue U]

The Orthodox are bizarre, and give the rest of us a bad name.

[GrossDad]

Don't install them and let Darwinism take its course, I say

Even said in jest, that remark is incredibly insensitive.

[thestoat]

Even said in jest, that remark is incredibly insensitive.

I thought it was very funny. But I do wonder ... Are they really banned from electricity? Because unless there is an undertaking to just "cherry pick" what not to use, it seems it would make the Sabbath a very difficult time for them. Apart from the obvious "no TV, no house lights (apart from candles)" sort of thing, presumably the no electricity rule also prohibits watches, cars, buses, the London Underground, cooking, internet, etc. It sounds incredibly draconian.

[Sue U]

It's not a ban on electricity. The general rule is that one is not to light a fire on the sabbath; however, a fire that is lit before the sabbath and continues to burn through the day can be used. Initiating an electrical contact -- the spark, if you will -- is analogized to lighting a fire. Therefore, where electrical appliances work constantly and automatically without some initiating button-pushing (i.e., fire-lighting) by an individual, it is permissible to take advantage of the process that has already been set in motion.

[thestoat]

Thanks Sue - so the Daily Mail got it wrong?? Surely not So these days These Jews would need to eat cold presumably? And no cups of tea (if their kettle is anything like mine) ...

[Sue U]

As usual, Wikipedia provides a concise explanation:

Sabbath mode

Sabbath mode, also known as Shabbos mode (Ashkenazi pronunciation) or Shabbat mode, is a feature in many modern home appliances, including ovens and refrigerators which is intended to allow the appliances to be used (subject to various constraints) by Shabbat-observant Jews on the Shabbat and Jewish holidays.

Jews are forbidden from doing creative work on the Shabbat. Observant Jews interpret this to include doing things such as making a fire, preparing food or even closing a switch or pressing an electronic button.

Appliances
Oven
While raw food may not be cooked on the Shabbat, food that was already cooked beforehand may be kept warm until mealtime. On some holidays, food may be cooked fresh, but turning the heat on is prohibited. In the past, the problem could be solved simply by lighting a stove or oven before the day began, and using its heat over the course of the day. In recent decades, however, appliance manufacturers have instituted a safety feature that automatically shuts off the heat after a number of hours. This renders the appliance useless for those who observe these religious laws.

When an oven is in Shabbat mode, the standard six- or twelve-hour automatic shutoff is overridden, and all lights and displays (for example, a light that might go on when the door is opened) are disabled.

In more recently designed ovens, Shabbat mode will often feature the ability to adjust the temperature of the oven without any feedback to the operator of the oven. This is not relevant to the Shabbat, but is useful on some holidays, when adjusting the heat is allowed, but changing a digital readout on the control panel is not, according to the prevailing Orthodox opinion and the minority Conservative view.

With some Shabbat mode ovens that are controlled using a keypad to set the temperature, there is a random delay triggered after a button is pressed before the temperature change takes place.

In June 2008, a number of prominent poskim signed a public pronouncement (Kol Koreh) stating that it was unequivocally forbidden to raise or lower the temperature by reprogramming on Yom Tov using the Star-K approved Shabbat Mode feature.[1] The pronouncement referred to the long-held lenient opinion of Rabbi Moshe Heinemann[2] as a minority opinion that should not be relied upon (Daas Yachid).[3] However, it has been pointed out that Rabbi Heinemann's opinion is fully consistent with the rulings of Rabbi Shlomo Zalman Auerbach.

Refrigerator
A Shabbat mode refrigerator includes, at a minimum, the ability to disable all lights or other electrical activity from occurring when the refrigerator door is opened. Some Shabbat mode refrigerators include a timer for the compressor so that opening the door, which will normally indirectly cause the compressor to turn on as the temperature rises, will have absolutely no effect on any electrical operation of the appliance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_mode

[Andrew D]

Shouldn't "automatic crossings" be routine anyway?

What should Stephen Hawking do at an intersection? He can't press the button; he can't even move either of his arms anywhere near the button.

(Okay, Hawking is in a position to have people who will do that for him. But others are not.)

[rubato]

It sounds like a very minor accommodation for society to make on behalf of a part of the population. I don't see that it deserves much notice.

yrs,
rubato

[Sue U]

It sounds like a very minor accommodation for society to make on behalf of a part of the population. I don't see that it deserves much notice.

You're just not getting it. It's a minority group with unfamiliar cultural practices receiving special consideration from the government, so outrage. From what I've seen, it's pretty much the standard story template for the UK tabloid press.

[Gob]

Outrage Sue? Surely not.

Maybe I should have stuck this one in "Laffs"?

It is a fine example of the way religion retards people's ability to deal with modern life..

[Sue U]

Outrage Sue? Surely not.

Um, did you see the comments under the linked story? This is an all too typical theme employed by the press and designed to play to the worst prejudices of the readers. As rubato pointed out, why is this even news in any periodical other than Traffic Control Monthly? Here we have a story about what should be the most mundane and innocuous of subjects -- a crossing signal, which itself was only a tiny part of a much larger roadway improvement project, and which cost NOTHING more than any other variety of crossing signal that might have been used -- and it's played as "special improvements being made just so that Jews can cross the street on their sabbath (and inconvenience/charge it to the rest of us!)." The reaction of the readership (more than 1000 comments before they closed it off!) was enitrely predictable, and predictably ugly:

OK I'm Church of England in a Christian country. ANYONE out there doing ANYTHING for my religious group???? Nah ...thought not.....
- Neil, Westcliff on Sea, 1/10/2011 18:25

Sorry, but at what point are we going to get a spine and stop pandering to every other cultures stupid religius laws at the cost of the British tax payer. It makes my blood boil... next they'll be asking to move Christmas.
- shakesheadslowly, Durham, 1/10/2011 18:27

How asolutely stupid. I hope they paid for this themselves. Why are we always pandering to the stupid of this country. Do they have them anywhere else in the world, probably not. I think our leaders and council leaders need a good kick up the backside for being morons.
- Sharon , Longfield, 1/10/2011 18:30

Oh for Gods sake! How ridiculous! Electricity came about over the last 100+ years and so someone(s) added this in to the rules and now IMHO going foward, another someone can amend it and take it out of these stupid rules! I have no time for stupidity and silly rules! or if you have stupid rules don't inflict them on other people! Sorry i have run out of religious tolerance!
- Sue, Borehamwood, 1/10/2011 18:35

They managed to cross the Red Sea without traffic lights.
- reptile, Thames Delta north, 2/10/2011 4:54

Is there no end to the farce these religious nutters are allowed to enforce on our secular country?. Madness and political correctness gone mad.
- Michael Riley, London, 1/10/2011 19:51

I'm not religious in any way, but I wonder if any other country would change things to satisfy people of another faith who live there?
- Kathy, Sheffield, 2/10/2011 3:53
Click to rate Rating 260

They managed to cross the Red Sea without traffic lights.
- reptile, Thames Delta north, 2/10/2011 4:54

Again Britain pandering to a very small minority. when will this country grow a backbone and stop giving all the minorities everything they ask for.
- Keyboard Kowboy, Edge of reality and reason, 2/10/2011 0:29

Didn't realise electricity was available when the 'Jewish' religious laws were invented, or did god include it then knowing that Man would eventually generate electricity.
- artuk, Exeter UK, 1/10/2011 19:45

What complete nonsense - why do we pander at our expense to such superstition. We are clearly moving back to the dark ages.
- David Bachauer, Manchester UK, 2/10/2011 6:43

No wonder the UK is destined for the toilet. Speaking of toilets, do these people have a problem pushing the button or cranking the handle on their toilets? No I thought not... It's all one way with the hasidics.
- Scallywag, Deepest Rural France, 1/10/2011 20:51

I really hate religion and the nutters around it. Bunch of story readers.
- The normal 1, Wish I was in thailand, 1/10/2011 18:50

i can't believe they don't use electricity. do they unplug the freezer and sit in the dark with no tv or radio
- ron hunt, halifax, 2/10/2011 6:43

What next will they think up to waste our hard earned tax money on? They can press the button with their nose or ask a gentile to do it for them. One assumes the Synagogue hasn't had any customers from the other side of the street since the crossing was built. Why do other religions come to our country and bring their stupid redundant customs with them? What happened to 'when in Rome'?
- John, Surrey, 2/10/2011 5:50

What does Melanie Phillips have to say about this pandering to minorities in a Christian country.
- Dan Wright, Portsmouth England, 1/10/2011 19:44

[Scooter]

I think you know I don't jump on the bandwagon of opposing religious accommodations for their own sake, but this is one that clearly has the potential to inconvenience others. There are reasons why crosswalks are used instead of traffic signals, and that is so traffic is interrupted only on demand by a crossing pedestrian and is not required to stop for no reason at all. To have the signal activate automatically every 90 seconds all evening Friday and all day Saturday impedes traffic far more than necessary, otherwise a regular traffic signal would have been installed there. If someone wants to cross and doesn't want to push a button, they can always do what we do here at many marked crosswalks without signals - stick out their arm to indicate their intention to cross, wait for cars to stop for them and then proceed across. If that puts them at additional risk of being mowed down, well tough, that is the chance they have chosen to take by living in a highly mechanized society using 3000 year old rules.

[Sue U]

Scooter, I am generally opposed to religious accommodations for any reason, regardless of effect or non-effect; that's just my American secularist perspective. The U.K. has a different approach in terms of public policy and the role of religious institutions in their society. In any event, the article in the OP notes that "planners insist it will not cause traffic chaos." But even if it did, the timer could always be adjusted or just turned off.

Regardless of the merits of traffic signal vs. painted crosswalk (and, having sat through hundreds of planning board meetings, I'm sure that's a balance the traffic engineers considered as well), my point was that this story was written to fit a preconceived narrative of "those [minority] people benefitting at our expense and tearing down British values," in order to whip up precisely the type of response you see in the comments.

[Scooter]

It's the Mail, that's their stock-in-trade.

[Liberty1]

The general rule is that one is not to light a fire on the sabbath; however, a fire that is lit before the sabbath and continues to burn through the day can be used. Initiating an electrical contact -- the spark, if you will -- is analogized to lighting a fire.

They need some mercury wetted switches, no-spark.