Converting gays creates 'damaged people'

[Gob]

Exorcisms, hugging, behavioural management and marriage are among the methods used by a Christian ministry to "heal" homosexuals in Queensland, according to a former leader who now wants to see the practice stamped out.

Paul Martin, the principal psychologist at Brisbane's Centre for Human Potential, said the local branches of an American organisation known as Exodus Global Alliance promoted homophobia and dangerous "ex-gay" therapies.

But Mr Martin, who became a lead counsellor with the Melbourne branch of Exodus Asia Pacific in his early 20s, said despite apparent support for issues such as same-sex marriage, there was a culture of internalised anti-gay sentiment in Queensland.
Mr Martin said that sentiment meant organisations seeking to “cure” homosexual people would continue to find an audience

Exodus made headlines yesterday when Community Services Minister Karen Struthers condemned her LNP counterpart Fiona Simpson for a speech made in 2002, which outlined her support for the organisation that helped gay and lesbian people "grow into heterosexuality" over time.

“Their message stems from the idea that homosexuality stems from a childhood love-deficit, that you weren't loved enough by your father and so crave love from men, or that you were sexually abused; basically that homosexuality comes from a bad place, that homosexuals are damaged people, and that Exodus will heal your brokenness,” Mr Martin said.

A former leader of the Exodus ministry says gay people who have been taught to go straight are 'the most damaged people I have ever worked with'.

Exorcisms, hugging, behavioural management and marriage are among the methods used by a Christian ministry to "heal" homosexuals in Queensland, according to a former leader who now wants to see the practice stamped out.

Paul Martin, the principal psychologist at Brisbane's Centre for Human Potential, said the local branches of an American organisation known as Exodus Global Alliance promoted homophobia and dangerous "ex-gay" therapies.

But Mr Martin, who became a lead counsellor with the Melbourne branch of Exodus Asia Pacific in his early 20s, said despite apparent support for issues such as same-sex marriage, there was a culture of internalised anti-gay sentiment in Queensland.

Mr Martin said that sentiment meant organisations seeking to “cure” homosexual people would continue to find an audience

Exodus made headlines yesterday when Community Services Minister Karen Struthers condemned her LNP counterpart Fiona Simpson for a speech made in 2002, which outlined her support for the organisation that helped gay and lesbian people "grow into heterosexuality" over time.

“Their message stems from the idea that homosexuality stems from a childhood love-deficit, that you weren't loved enough by your father and so crave love from men, or that you were sexually abused; basically that homosexuality comes from a bad place, that homosexuals are damaged people, and that Exodus will heal your brokenness,” Mr Martin said.
Promotional material for American ex-gay motivational speaker Adam Hood.

“Ex-gay ministries [like Exodus] see homosexuality as a sin, as something that is evil, and a disorder that can be cured.”

According to a timeline on the Exodus Global Alliance website, the ministries expanded into Australia in 1978, with Brisbane hosting the first Exodus Asia Pacific conference in 1990 as the church grew into Singapore and the Philippines.

Of the eight Exodus ministries currently operating in Australia, five are located in Queensland, including two at the Sunshine Coast, one in Underwood and one in Tingalpa.

Exodus Asia Pacific chairman Carol Hardy declined to comment when approached by brisbanetimes.com.au yesterday. Calls made to Queensland's Exodus ministries by brisbanetimes.com.au were also not returned.

Mr Martin said those ministered to by Exodus suffered from deep religious conflict and internal homophobia that manifested in intense self-loathing and strong desire to find relief from their perceived “burden of sinful sexuality”.

He said after signing up to the ministries, the parishioners would participate in various “treatment programs” that included focused prayer groups, counselling, and exercises designed to cast out demons.

Men and women underwent masculinisation and feminisation therapies which included learning how to dress and behave more like “the straight man or woman they were supposed to be,” Mr Martin said, including dressing lesbians in Laura Ashley garments.

There was also an intense pressure to form heterosexual relationships in the Christian communities that supported the ministry, with marriage and children seen as the ultimate mark of success.

“We'd parade men who went through the program and got married around like they were champions, and they'd all say their lives were better since they committed to God and enjoyed the sort of relationship God intended – with a woman, having children,” Mr Martin said.

“But you'd then have a conversation where they admitted their lives were far more painful now they were living this even greater lie – they were burdened with guilt because they were hurting the woman they were married to, or engaging in desperate sex acts in public toilets or bushes that were even further from their belief system [than committed same-sex relationships].”

Mr Martin said such interactions, coupled with his own struggle to meld his fundamental Christian beliefs with his homosexual orientation, eventually gave rise to his decision to walk away from the ministry, its church, and move to Brisbane.

Twenty-five years later, Mr Martin is a registered psychologist, equal-rights campaigner, advocate for same-sex marriage and impassioned critic of so-called "gay healing".

He said while attitudes had improved significantly since his youth, the large number of ex-gay ministries in Queensland was a sign homophobic sentiment still made life challenging for many men and women.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensl ... z1c1piK9pC

Why are some Christians so obsessed with other people's sex lives?

[dales]

A former leader of the Exodus ministry says gay people who have been taught to go straight are 'the most damaged people I have ever worked with'.

No arguement here.

I've often wondered what it would be like the other way around. Like-sexual relationships were the "norm" and those who chose others from "outside their sex" were marginalized and believed to be menatlly ill.

The horror.

Why are some Christians so obsessed with other people's sex lives?

Perhaps they have "their own issues" to work through.

[dgs49]

Most Christian outreach to homosexuals is in response to a request by the individual.

The most interesting aspect of this "story" generally is the hysterical insistence by the "gay community" that IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO MODIFY HUMAN SEXUAL PREFERENCE!

Don't bother them with facts or examples. It is an article of faith.

Because if sexuality is a CHOICE, then much of their whining about status is compromised.

As incomprehensible as it is to imagine having sexual urgings about a man, there is no question that culture can affect what one finds attractive.

[rubato]

Most Christian outreach to homosexuals is in response to a request by the individual.

The most interesting aspect of this "story" generally is the hysterical insistence by the "gay community" that IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO MODIFY HUMAN SEXUAL PREFERENCE!

Don't bother them with facts or examples. It is an article of faith.

Because if sexuality is a CHOICE, then much of their whining about status is compromised.

As incomprehensible as it is to imagine having sexual urgings about a man, there is no question that culture can affect what one finds attractive.

I did not 'choose' to be heterosexual. I learned that one day I started having a sexual response to female bodies which I didn't have to male ones. This is how homosexuals describe the way they learned their own sexual preference.


Culture certainly does effect what one finds attractive. But not that much.




yrs,
rubato

[Joe Guy]

The most interesting aspect of this "story" generally is the hysterical insistence by the "gay community" that IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO MODIFY HUMAN SEXUAL PREFERENCE!

I've never heard anyone in the "gay community" claim that homosexuality is a HUMAN SEXUAL PREFERENCE.

I've only heard the opposite - that they are born homosexual.

[quaddriver]

Why are some Christians so obsessed with other people's sex lives?

Christianity, has nothing to do with it:

In many African countries being gay is illegal

I bet middle eastern and asian countries fare about the same.

It would appear to one making a 'collection' of such stats, that if you are gay and want tolerance, you might wanna be in a country that identifies itself as 'christian'

[rubato]

Earth calling, earth calling.

Sub-saharan Africa is mostly Christian.






yrs,
rubato

[quaddriver]

many countries today in the Middle East and Africa, as well as several countries in Asia, the Caribbean and the South Pacific, outlaw homosexuality. In six countries, homosexual behavior is punishable by life imprisonment; in ten others, it carries the death penalty.

I guess the pope makes the laws there?

Repeating: christianity has nothing to do with it

[Gob]

Why are some Christians so obsessed with other people's sex lives?

Christianity, has nothing to do with it:

Did you miss all the points before? Some Christians are so obsessed by other people's sex lives they seek to "convert" them to heterosexuality.

That is the point of debate, not whatever happens by law in Africa.

Can you find me a "conversion" therapy that is not religiously based, in the first world? Homosexuality was removed from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual 36 years ago.

***

I have a dictaphone taped to my stomach as I arrive at Lynne's large house, north of London. She had told me beforehand that she would charge me £40 per session and that she always prayed at the beginning and end of the sessions. I'm shown into a spacious living room.

"I love my work and in particular this whole area of SSA [same sex attraction]," she says, as we sit down. "It's such an important area to work in." She has a wholesome face and the suburban air of someone who, when not trying to convert you to heterosexuality, would probably be rustling up a jolly good Victoria sponge. Like those at the conference, she doesn't say "gay"; she only uses the term "SSA".

I ask how she views homosexuality – as a mental illness, an addiction or an anti-religious phenomenon?

"It's all of that," she replies.

And then we pray. "Oh Father, we give you permission to work in Matthew's life to bring complete light and healing into every part of his being." After asking God to heal me, she opens her eyes. "I know the boundaries to keep within," she says.

She begins by asking me about my psychological history. I tell her that I was depressed as a teenager because I feared I would face prejudice for the rest of my life.

Can I learn to not feel attraction to men?

"Yes," she replies, "because that attraction is connected to a deep need that needs to be met and responded to and healed."

But how do I instead become attracted to women? Lynne explains that it's about "reprogramming" and going back into my early developmental stages. "Parts of you have developed but there is a little part of you that has stayed stuck," she says.

Oh, like being retarded?

"It is a bit like that," she agrees.

Lynne asks why I have come for treatment. I tell her that I'm tired of meaningless sexual encounters and that I have rediscovered my faith. She gets a whiteboard out and starts writing my words up on it. "I can't deal with the meaningless anymore," she says as she scrawls. "Hmm. Good sentiment."

"Are you feeling quite lustful with the SSA?" she asks. I reply that I am – but not just lust. In my last relationship, I say, I felt profound love towards my boyfriend. "That needs to be broken," she says. "There's a darkness that's very real that keeps you as its dog, but of course our God is more powerful than that."

Lynne's approach is two-pronged. She gives practical advice to intercept my sexual feelings towards men and, in keeping with Nicolosi's theories, delves into my past to search for my "wounds". These, she says, will explain why I turned to homosexuality.

She begins her wound hunt by asking about my family. I tell her that I have a close relationship with my parents and that they always gave me huge amounts of love, so I didn't understand why Nicolosi says that homosexuality is caused by inadequate parenting. "Well, there was something happening within your family dynamics that led to your depression," she says.

Lynne explains that people only identify as gay when they are already depressed. "There's a confusion, there's an anxiety, there's a lot of pain," she says. "Often the thought can be, 'Oh I'm confused about my sexuality so I must be gay'." She says that at the heart of homosexuality is a "deep isolation", which is, she says, "where God needs to be".

"Did you have a difficult birth?" she asks. No, I say. Why?

"It's just something I have noticed. Often [with homosexuality] it is quite traumatic, the baby was put into intensive care and because of the separation from the mother there can be that lack of attachment."

She moves on. "Any Freemasonry in the family?" No, I say, again asking her to elaborate. "Because that often encourages it as well. It has a spiritual effect on males and it often comes out as SSA."

Next, she looks for self-esteem wounds. "I think you have some unhelpful thoughts about yourself, about who you are," she says. "What do you think about yourself? In the deepest part of you, in your stomach."

"I think I'm a good person," I reply. She wants more. "I think I am a determined person." Still not enough. "I think I've a lot to give."

"But do you like yourself?" she asks, becoming impatient.

"I think I'm a good person," I repeat.

"Yes that's different though from 'do you like yourself?' Deep underneath this there's other stuff we need to get to. I think you must have had quite a lot of bullying." No, I say. "There was no sexual abuse?" she asks, leaning in and squinting again. No, I repeat. "I think it will be there," she replies, dropping her voice to a concerned tone. "It does need to come to the surface."

And so, she prays for me again. "Father, we give you permission to bring to the surface some of the things that have happened over the years. Father, enable your love to pour into that place of isolation in that little boy, whatever age, we give you permission to go there, with your healing power and your light, go into those parts, open all the doors, and access each one with your light."

She looks up. I ask her again about this abuse. "I think there is something there," she says. "You've allowed things to be done to you." In the next session I ask if she thinks the abuse would have taken place within my family, because I can't remember it. "Yes, very likely," she replies.

The following session takes place on the phone as Lynne is abroad. This time, she focuses on the practical. She recommends that I distance myself from my gay friends and take up a sport such as rugby.

I ask what I should do about masturbation – is it best to abstain completely? "It is, it definitely is," she says. "It will be a battle, but the more you can say no to it, the stronger you get. The enemy is going to bombard you."

She tells me what to say internally when I think about an attractive man: "Father I need help, I know it's wrong, you have all the power over my thoughts and I give that image to you Father, and I ask that you will help me to put the right image in my mind."

Lynne recommends I read a book called Setting Love in Order by Mario Bergner, an "ex-gay". In it, he claims that through prayer he also managed to cure himself of HIV. So with prayer can an HIV-positive person really become negative? "Well the Lord heals, doesn't he?" she replies. "Are you HIV-positive?"

It transpires during the sessions that she gets most of her clients through an NHS GPs' surgery near her home. She says they refer people to her for treatment for their homosexuality. I tell her I know someone in that area that wants referring, should he just say its for anxiety and depression? "I think it would be better to say anxiety and depression initially and then we can take it from there," she replies. "He can usually get four sessions with the practice, which are paid for by the NHS."

At the end of the session I ask about my chances of success with this treatment. "It's down to what you want," she says. "Good will come out of this. The Lord will lead us through."

***

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/th ... 84947.html

[The Hen]

Repeating: christianity has nothing to do with it

It does in the OP.

[Joe Guy]

Why are some Christians so obsessed with other people's sex lives?

Christianity, has nothing to do with it:

Actually, Christianity has everything to do with the subject of this thread.

If you want to express disagreement with someone, you should first attempt to understand the opinion that you are trying to disagree with.

but then again, that's not what trolls do...

[quaddriver]

Why are some Christians so obsessed with other people's sex lives?

Christianity, has nothing to do with it:

Actually, Christianity has everything to do with the subject of this thread.

If you want to express disagreement with someone, you should first attempt to understand the opinion that you are trying to disagree with.

but then again, that's not what trolls do...

so, responding to the ONLY words that the OP posted that were in fact his/hers is trollish? (as evidenced by, oh I dunno, the quote?)

I see.

I would have thought that being DEAD as a result of law or state action would be slightly worse than being tormented by a tiny insignificant number of residents. Of course, the link *I* gave showed quite worse behaviour, not christian related. But thats trollish as well I take it.

I stand on my position, with or without the proof I have offered. Christianity, has nothing to do with it. IF you cannot fathom why that is MORE relevant than the quoted material in the OP, perhaps you should be second guessing your participation.

[Gob]

I would have thought that being DEAD as a result of law or state action would be slightly worse than being tormented by a tiny insignificant number of residents. Of course, the link *I* gave showed quite worse behaviour, not christian related. But thats trollish as well I take it.

If you wish to start a discussion on the treatment of homosexuals in Africa, please do. This topic is not about that.

I stand on my position, with or without the proof I have offered. Christianity, has nothing to do with it. IF you cannot fathom why that is MORE relevant than the quoted material in the OP, perhaps you should be second guessing your participation.

Christianity has nothing to do with Christians wanting to, offering to, and campaigning to "convert" homosexuals? What colour is the sky on your planet?

[The Hen]

Perhaps they have "their own issues" to work through.

I reckon you are right, dales.

[quaddriver]

I would have thought that being DEAD as a result of law or state action would be slightly worse than being tormented by a tiny insignificant number of residents. Of course, the link *I* gave showed quite worse behaviour, not christian related. But thats trollish as well I take it.

If you wish to start a discussion on the treatment of homosexuals in Africa, please do. This topic is not about that.

I stand on my position, with or without the proof I have offered. Christianity, has nothing to do with it. IF you cannot fathom why that is MORE relevant than the quoted material in the OP, perhaps you should be second guessing your participation.

Christianity has nothing to do with Christians wanting to, offering to, and campaigning to "convert" homosexuals? What colour is the sky on your planet?

Read the link. The answer is obviously no. (and oddly, the link was created/topical TODAY. Talk about relevant)

[Gob]

Which link? Are you drunk?

[The Hen]

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/27/world ... ?hpt=hp_c1

He used the above link as a quote in his post above. I believe this is the link he is referring to.

[Gob]

So what does "the horror of South African corrective rape", have to do with this discussion? The man's mad.

[quaddriver]

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/10/27/world ... ?hpt=hp_c1

He used the above link as a quote in his post above. I believe this is the link he is referring to.

Exactly. Now we have two groups who attempt conversion.

the 'christians' in yours, and africans in mine (truth be told, the desire to 'fuck someone straight' I think is more of a black thing than african. It occurs in this country as well in the rougher gang-infested areas, notably the land of fruits and nuts)

As I also alluded to (I had a better post with links that got swallowed) moslem and some asian countries do the conversion via death. As did india, officially, up until 2009, now its more back alley.

the point being, you can take Gobs statement (his statement, not the article) and replace 'christians' with any of the groups I pointed out and it holds.

Ergo, christianity has nothing to do with it.

[quaddriver]

So what does "the horror of South African corrective rape", have to do with this discussion? The man's mad.

seriously? we have two articles on THIS page in which two methods are emplyed to convert, heal or otherwise correct homsexuality and you cannot see the similarity?

I find that hard to beleive.