I notice that you didnt actually dispute his claims.
His book isnt a good source?
mebbe the old standby
wiki
not going to bother quoting from you, you can read it - or not, it refutes everything you have said about the Jewish american Lobby.
or maybe i will
The Washington Post summarized the Center for Responsive Politics' 1990–2006 data and concluded that "Pro-Israel interests have contributed $56.8 million in individual, group and soft money donations to federal candidates and party committees since 1990."[46] In contrast, Arab-Americans and Muslim PACs contributed slightly less than $800,000 during the same (1990–2006) period.[47]
J.J. Goldberg wrote in his 1994 book Jewish Power that 45% of the Democratic Party’s fundraising and 25% of that for the Republican Party came from Jewish-funded Political Action Committees.[48] Richard Cohen, a columnist for the Washington Post, updated those figures in 2006 citing figures of 60% and 35% respectively for the Democratic and Republican Parties. According to the Washington Post, Democratic presidential candidates depend on Jewish sources for 60% of money from private sources
those are not trivial numbers.
but those are american numbers, cant trust the americans. How about the
uk
they say (among other things)
A final reason to question Israel’s strategic value is that it does not behave like a loyal ally. Israeli officials frequently ignore US requests and renege on promises (including pledges to stop building settlements and to refrain from ‘targeted assassinations’ of Palestinian leaders).
which oddly, covers 2 key points Dave brought up that you went after him on.
and the non existent J-A lobby:
Jewish Americans have set up an impressive array of organisations to influence American foreign policy, of which AIPAC is the most powerful and best known. In 1997, Fortune magazine asked members of Congress and their staffs to list the most powerful lobbies in Washington. AIPAC was ranked second behind the American Association of Retired People, but ahead of the AFL-CIO and the National Rifle Association. A National Journal study in March 2005 reached a similar conclusion, placing AIPAC in second place (tied with AARP) in the Washington ‘muscle rankings’.
The Lobby also includes prominent Christian evangelicals like Gary Bauer, Jerry Falwell, Ralph Reed and Pat Robertson, as well as Dick Armey and Tom DeLay, former majority leaders in the House of Representatives, all of whom believe Israel’s rebirth is the fulfilment of biblical prophecy and support its expansionist agenda; to do otherwise, they believe, would be contrary to God’s will. Neo-conservative gentiles such as John Bolton; Robert Bartley, the former Wall Street Journal editor; William Bennett, the former secretary of education; Jeane Kirkpatrick, the former UN ambassador; and the influential columnist George Will are also steadfast supporters.
The US form of government offers activists many ways of influencing the policy process. Interest groups can lobby elected representatives and members of the executive branch, make campaign contributions, vote in elections, try to mould public opinion etc. They enjoy a disproportionate amount of influence when they are committed to an issue to which the bulk of the population is indifferent. Policymakers will tend to accommodate those who care about the issue, even if their numbers are small, confident that the rest of the population will not penalise them for doing so.
In its basic operations, the Israel Lobby is no different from the farm lobby, steel or textile workers’ unions, or other ethnic lobbies. There is nothing improper about American Jews and their Christian allies attempting to sway US policy: the Lobby’s activities are not a conspiracy of the sort depicted in tracts like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion. For the most part, the individuals and groups that comprise it are only doing what other special interest groups do, but doing it very much better. By contrast, pro-Arab interest groups, in so far as they exist at all, are weak, which makes the Israel Lobby’s task even easier.
The Lobby pursues two broad strategies. First, it wields its significant influence in Washington, pressuring both Congress and the executive branch. Whatever an individual lawmaker or policymaker’s own views may be, the Lobby tries to make supporting Israel the ‘smart’ choice. Second, it strives to ensure that public discourse portrays Israel in a positive light, by repeating myths about its founding and by promoting its point of view in policy debates. The goal is to prevent critical comments from getting a fair hearing in the political arena. Controlling the debate is essential to guaranteeing US support, because a candid discussion of US-Israeli relations might lead Americans to favour a different policy.
A key pillar of the Lobby’s effectiveness is its influence in Congress, where Israel is virtually immune from criticism. This in itself is remarkable, because Congress rarely shies away from contentious issues. Where Israel is concerned, however, potential critics fall silent. One reason is that some key members are Christian Zionists like Dick Armey, who said in September 2002: ‘My No. 1 priority in foreign policy is to protect Israel.’ One might think that the No. 1 priority for any congressman would be to protect America. There are also Jewish senators and congressmen who work to ensure that US foreign policy supports Israel’s interests.
or how about yet
another source?
AIPAC stands for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee. Its job is to maintain America’s support and favourable opinion towards Israel.
It has an annual budget of US$60 million, a staff of 275, and is backed up by over 100,000 grassroots members. It also has an endowment of $135 million and a new $80 million headquarters on Capitol Hill.
AIPAC is smart, wealthy and organised, and is arguably the most powerful lobby group in America.
Almost every major US politician including Barack Obama has spoken at their conference.
US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton was the keynote speaker this week, backed up by Tony Blair.
Israel actually copped some criticism from Clinton in her speech, to go with the unhappy remarks from the White House last week over its settlement building.
However, such criticism is rare. The US was even quick to reaffirm the strong relationship between the two countries in an almost apologetic manner.
This begs a simple question – why is the mighty United States so scared of little old Israel?
They reason is the determined influence of the Jewish lobby.
Indeed, the influence is so strong that to publicly criticise Israel is a social and political taboo.
Journalists and academics have quickly learnt that being pro-Israeli in the US makes it a lot easier to further your career.
But it’s the politicians who have the most to fear.
It is now commonly held knowledge in the halls of Washington that if a politician ever spoke out for the rights of the Palestinians on the Congress or Senate floor, that would be the end of their career.
They would be shunned by other politicians, making any legislation they propose, particularly for their state, almost impossible to get passed.
But more significantly, their opponent in the next election would be flooded with political donations, and an advertising campaign would likely label them a supporter of terrorism and an enemy of Israel.
The advertising and anti-Semitic (anti-Jewish) accusations from the opponent, not to mention the lack of progress in Washington, would collectively make the election unwinnable.
Seem far-fetched? It happened to Alabama congressman Earl Hilliard in 2002.
The threat is a reality for politicians thanks to AIPAC’s highly organised band of followers.
AIPAC does not fund campaigns themselves. Instead they provide their followers with voting statistics on congressmen and advise which candidate to support and donate money to.
And their followers are not just Jewish Americans. Some of the staunchest supporters of AIPAC and Israel are evangelical Christians – a quarter of American voters.
All over the country Christian preachers are telling their congregations they must support Israel because the Bible says so.
So what does all this support mean for the Middle East?
The US in turn uses its power over Arab countries in the region to silence their criticism. It also blocks any legal condemnation by using its veto in the UN Security Council.
And lastly, the US gives US$3 billion a year to Israel – making it the largest recipient of foreign aid in the world. This reinforces Israel’s financial and military superiority over the Palestinians.
But this support is beginning to backfire – if only a little.
Last week, General David Petraeus, America’s highest military commander, told the US Congress that America’s favouritism towards Israel had caused anti-American sentiment to the point that it was no longer in America’s interests.
Colin Powell’s former Chief of Staff Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson agrees, saying Israel is now a strategic burden on America.
And AIPAC is beginning to lose its monopoly on Israeli lobbying. In 2008 an Israeli lobby group called J Street started up as a voice for more moderate Jewish Americans.
They campaign for Israel’s security and right to exist, but do so by promoting the return of Palestinian land to the 1967 borders – essentially what the Arab and international community wants.
But J Street is still a minor player compared to AIPAC. And although President Obama gave them legitimacy by inviting them to the White House, they still have a long way to go before having any real influence on America’s approach.
Indeed, the influence AIPAC has on America cannot be underestimated. It’s akin to Israel having the referee on their side in a soccer match against the Palestinians.
So until America and the world wakes up to this silencing act, there is little hope for peace and justice in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
Since I am the only one quoting sources in this thread (quelle surprise!) I am going to stop as I dont have the time and this BBS does not have the bandwidth to store the 2million responses from a directed google search.
suffice to say, the jewish american lobby is real, well funded and is ranked by everyone else not named Sue as the most powerful in the US, perhaps world. so we can dispense with that and address Daves points - or not - or insult him more - or insult me - or derail into a discussion about the walking dead...your call.