If god says you're cured, you're cured!

[Gob]

At least six people have died in Britain after being told that they had been healed of HIV, and could stop taking their medication.

There is evidence that evangelical churches in London, Manchester, Birmingham and Glasgow are claiming to cure HIV through God.

We sent three undercover reporters into the Synagogue Church of All Nations (SCOAN) , which is based in Southwark, south London.

All of them told the pastors that they were HIV positive. All were told that they could be healed.

Once a month the church has a prayer line, where people from across Europe come to be cured of all kinds of illness.

At registration they have to hand over a doctor's letter as evidence of their condition

They are filmed giving before and after testimonies, which are put on SCOAN's website.

The healing process involves the pastor shouting, over the person being healed, for the devil to come out of their body, and spraying water in their face.

One of the pastors, Rachel Holmes, told our reporter, Shatila, who is a genuine HIV sufferer, they had a 100% success rate.

"We have many people that contract HIV. All are healed."

She said if symptoms such as vomiting or diarrhoea persist, it is actually a sign of the virus leaving the body.

"We've had people come back before saying 'Oh I'm not healed. The diarrhoea I had when I had HIV, I've got it again.' I have to stop them and say 'no, please, you are free.'"

SCOAN told our reporters they would be able to discard their medication after their healing and that they would be free to start a family.

Former health secretary Lord Fowler, who led the HIV/Aids awareness drive in the 1980s, says this message is dangerous.

"It is foolish advice and it is tragic advice because the consequences of this kind of advice can only be that people pass on HIV and can only be seriously bad for the individual concerned - including death."

Medical professionals have told Sky News of at least six patients who have died after being told by various churches to stop taking their HIV tablets.

Emmanuel came off his medication a year ago, on the instructions of a pastor at his church in North London.

"He told me I'd been healed: 'You've got to stop taking the medicine now. I'll keep praying for you. Once God forgives you then the disease will definitely go.'"

Emmanuel admits he suspects he may have passed his HIV onto his boyfriend.

"Yeah, I think I've passed it on. He got ill. Physically he's lost some bit of weight. He's very small. I think he's worried... Yeah I feel guilty, if I'm the one who passed it onto him I'm feeling guilty. Yeah very much guilty."

The Synagogue Church of All Nations is wealthy. It has branches across the globe and its own TV channel.

On its website it promotes its anointing water, which is used during the healing, and it also makes money from merchandise, such as DVDs, CDs and books.

Church members are expected to give regular donations.

It is also a registered UK charity. The Charity Commission is looking at our findings.

The Department of Health says it is very concerned: "Our advice is clear that faith and prayer are not a substitute for any form of treatment, especially for HIV treatment."

Sky News asked the church for its response to our investigation. Here is its statement:

"We are not the Healer; God is the Healer. Never a sickness God cannot heal. Never a disease God cannot cure. Never a burden God cannot bear. Never a problem God cannot solve.

"To His power, nothing is impossible. We have not done anything to bring about healing, deliverance or prosperity. If somebody is healed, it is God who heals.

"We must have a genuine desire if we come to God. We are not in position to question anybody's genuine desire. Only God knows if one comes with true desire. Only God can determine this.

"That is why, if anybody comes in the name of God, we pray for them. The outcome of the prayer will determine if they come genuinely or not."

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/churches-told- ... 35993.html

At least three people in London with HIV have died after they stopped taking life saving drugs on the advice of their Evangelical Christian pastors.

The women died after attending churches in London where they were encouraged to stop taking the antiretroviral drugs in the belief that God would heal them, their friends and a leading HIV doctor said.

Responding to the BBC London investigation, Lord Fowler, the former health minister responsible for the famous Aids awareness campaign of the 1980s, condemned the practice.

"It's just wrong, bad advice that should be confronted," said the Tory peer, who chaired last month's House of Lords committee into HIV.

Jane Iwu, 48, from Newham, east London, described one case, saying: "I know of a friend who had been to a pastor. She told her to stop taking her medication - that God is a healer and has healed her."

"This lady believed it. She stopped taking her medication. She passed away," said Ms Iwu, who has HIV herself.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14406818

[loCAtek]

Woo, three to six, that's epidemic


...where again?


Oh yes, U-over-melodramatic-K. That explains everything.

[Scooter]

So then so long as it is done in the name of God, you are ok with people being counselled to commit suicide by stopping treatment of a deadly disease. Nice.

[loCAtek]

How to put this ...?

My next door neighbor had terminal leukemia and choose to listen to a faith-healer and so she died far more at peace.

They ALWAYS say make your peace with God.

So, yes, if it's this way or similarly, then I support folks finding peace.

Why would you deny people such?

[Scooter]

We are not talking about people for whom there is no hope and for whom treatment would mean nothing but prolonging their agony. We are talking about people who could live almost normal lives for 20, 30 or more years if they stick with their treatment regimen, who are being told to throw their meds away and believe that their pastor will cure them. What they are preaching is nothing short of murder.

But I am not surprised you would take this position. Anything done in the name of religion is fine in your book, even child rape.

[loCAtek]

Wow, I'm glad I didn't say that, but it's time for your meds.

[Scooter]

You have said it in a hundred different ways. Every time you came to the defense of those who knowingly permitted it to go on, you were cheering on the rapists as they tore the vaginas and rectums of the girls and boys they raped.

[Scooter]

And I see you refuse to acknowledge any difference in stopping treatment between someone for whom there is no hope, and someone who could live normally for decades to come, and who will die without treatment.

[loCAtek]

I did? Should I not be aware of what I did? Or; are you projecting?

That's ingenuous BTW.

... like saying if one chooses to stop treatment, they should be forced to take it.

Really, are you so control freaky you think you can tell others how to live their lives?

Juss curious...

[Scooter]

What it says is that is wrong to take advantage of someones faith, trust and gullibility in order to counsel them to commit suicide, which is exactly what these pastors are doing. And I get it, you are completely fine with that.

[loCAtek]

I'm fine with peace, deal with it.

[BoSoxGal]

Scooter, please don't pay attention to the loCA

[Scooter]

If you believe that a death from untreated AIDS is peaceful, you should try visiting a palliative care unit sometime.

But hey, I get it, you think it is just dandy to counsel people to die by having their brains eaten away by fungus or their bodies riddled with suppurating tumours, by telling them to throw away the meds that could give them decades of healthy life.

bsg - I am having fun seeing how far she is willing to defend counselling someone to throw away decades of good health and submit to a horrifically agonistic death instead

[Gob]

She's eat dogshit off the side-walk if that was the only avenue of attention for her..

[loCAtek]

Here we go again, thX to Foe Freak Fail, here's your sign;



...by implying things I didn't say; he needs the luv.
It's a childhood psychosis, the need to 'feel the hate' ...even if there isn't any there.
I understand.


ETA: Oops, Gob broke his tools ...already, LOL.

That was what? Less than 24? Hypocrite?

[Scooter]

She was smarter than usual and gave up when she was behind.

[loCAtek]

You imply and deserve your sign.

[Scooter]

And you deserve the syphilis that is clearly eating away at your brain. I guess a pastor advised you to try prayer instead of pencillin.

[loCAtek]

Oops, you're hallucinating into atheist/soulless fantasy-land - toldya, time for more meds; while drugs are your only consolation, and you should appreciate their chemically goodness, while not denying others their spiritual solace; otherwise that's kinda selfish. Juss sayin.

[Scooter]

Inducing people into committing suicide by lying to them constitutes spiritual solace? Okay..

There's little difference between these clowns in collars and Jim Jones. I suppose his followers were all seeking "spiritual solace" when they drank the koolaid.