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A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:13 am
by loCAtek
Defense of “Spiritual”


In writing my next book, I will have to confront the animosity that many people feel for the term “spiritual.” Whenever I use the word—as in referring to meditation as a “spiritual practice”—I inevitably hear from fellow skeptics and atheists who think that I have committed a grievous error.

The word “spirit” comes from the Latin spiritus, which in turn is a translation of the Greek pneuma, meaning “breath.” Around the 13th century, the term became bound up with notions of immaterial souls, supernatural beings, ghosts, etc. It acquired other connotations as well—we speak of the spirit of a thing as its most essential principle, or of certain volatile substances and liquors as spirits. Nevertheless, many atheists now consider “spiritual” thoroughly poisoned by its association with medieval superstition.

I strive for precision in my use of language, but I do not share these semantic concerns. And I would point out that my late friend Christopher Hitchens—no enemy of the lexicographer—didn’t share them either. Hitch believed that “spiritual” was a term we could not do without, and he repeatedly plucked it from the mire of supernaturalism in which it has languished for nearly a thousand years.

It is true that Hitch didn’t think about spirituality in precisely the way I do. He spoke instead of the spiritual pleasures afforded by certain works of poetry, music, and art. The symmetry and beauty of the Parthenon embodied this happy extreme for him—without any requirement that we admit the existence of the goddess Athena, much less devote ourselves to her worship. Hitch also used the terms “numinous” and “transcendent” to mark occasions of great beauty or significance—and for him the Hubble Deep Field was an example of both. I’m sure he was aware that pedantic excursions into the OED would produce etymological embarrassments regarding these words as well.

We must reclaim good words and put them to good use—and this is what I intend to do with “spiritual.” I have no quarrel with Hitch’s general use of it to mean something like “beauty or significance that provokes awe,” but I believe that we can also use it in a narrower and, indeed, more transcendent sense.

Of course, “spiritual” and its cognates have some unfortunate associations unrelated to their etymology—and I will do my best to cut those ties as well. But there seems to be no other term (apart from the even more problematic “mystical” or the more restrictive “contemplative”) with which to discuss the deliberate efforts some people make to overcome their feeling of separateness—through meditation, psychedelics, or other means of inducing non-ordinary states of consciousness. And I find neologisms pretentious and annoying. Hence, I appear to have no choice: “Spiritual” it is.





by Sam Harris

So, how was the Global Atheist Convention?

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 1:32 am
by Scooter
The point you are attempting to make by juxtaposing that quote with the comment beneath it seems to have eluded me. Perhaps you wouldn't mind providing a bit more explanation.

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 2:54 am
by loCAtek
Whilst researching the GAC, which I understood was to have taken place already; I came across the above quoted paragraph on the event's FB page.

http://www.facebook.com/atheistconvention

Sincerely, I agree with much of the spiritual defintion; so why was it on an atheist page? Was this the kind of thing, the conference discussed?
I ask, because with a cursory browse, I didn't read much describing the actual goings-on, or the scheduled lectures of the convention.

How well received was this opinion, there? ...And is there any dissenting views here?

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:02 am
by Scooter
I imagine you would have to ask someone who was there.

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:32 am
by loCAtek
It was my impression, a few here intended to go....so, I'm asking.

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:47 am
by Scooter
Really? Someone here mentioned that they were planning to attend? Could you point out where that was, please?

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:18 am
by loCAtek
No, they didn't mention planning to attend, but it was my impression -they attend and support such functions as this; so, I was asking if they went to this one?

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:22 am
by Scooter
loCAtek wrote:they attend and support such functions as this
Could you please point out where anyone has said that they have attended and/or supported events such as this one?

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:25 am
by loCAtek
They haven't. I said, for the third time, that that was my impression.


Although Gob has said his step-daughter has attended such, which is one of the factors that lead to my impression.

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:30 am
by loCAtek
Therefore- it's all up to: will anyone come forward? Otherwise, I can't speak for anyone else.

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:38 am
by Scooter
loCAtek wrote:that was my impression.
So then could you please link to the post(s) that gave you the impression that anyone here would be interested in attending such a conference.

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:56 am
by loCAtek
In no order;


viewtopic.php?f=12&t=2729&p=35628&hilit ... ion#p35628

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5967&hilit=hatch
Gob wrote:
bigskygal wrote:Are you going to see them? I envy you the opportunity!
I hadn't planned to, but we just found out Hatch will be attending! Lucky girl.


Tell me, they didn't want to attend, or better yet; they themselves can tell me they didn't want to attend?

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:33 am
by Scooter
I see. Because Gob did NOT go to a previously held Global Atheist Convention, you got the impression that he might have attended this one. Thank you, that's ever so much clearer.

And yes, anyone who has attended can tell you so themselves, and can answer whatever questions you have about it, which is what I said in my second post.

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 5:00 pm
by Econoline
I really don't understand why you're harping on this, Scooter. I didn't think loCAtek's original post came across as either offensive or derogatory, and when you asked her why she posted it (a question most here don't routinely get asked) she gave you an answer. I know you dislike her and think you'll find some nefarious motive if you just keep digging...but what purpose does that serve? Why not just let it go?

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:20 pm
by Scooter
It was done, as far as I was concerned, and I did not respond to her any differently that I would have to anyone else whose posts were confusing to me. Was there a reason why you felt you needed to inject presumptions of hostile motives in order to fan as yet nonexistent flames? It hasn't been a couple of days since I wrote several posts attempting to assist her with her questions about air conditioning (whether actually helpful or not, I leave to her judgment). Would I have even bothered with that if I "didn't like her", or if my intention was to seize on the slightest of pretexts in order to pick a fight?

We're going to have a serious problem here if people insist on interpreting every interaction with loCA through the lens of what happened in the past.

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 6:34 pm
by Lord Jim
We're going to have a serious problem here if people insist on interpreting every interaction with loCA through the lens of what happened in the past.
That's quite true, and in fairness it cuts both ways....

Both other's interactions with LoCa and LoCa's interactions with them...

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:10 pm
by Econoline
Lord Jim wrote:
We're going to have a serious problem here if people insist on interpreting every interaction with loCA through the lens of what happened in the past.
That's quite true, and in fairness it cuts both ways....

Both other's interactions with LoCa and LoCa's interactions with them...
Good point, Jim. And I apologize for misreading your intent, Scooter.

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 8:45 pm
by Scooter
No problem.

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 9:47 pm
by The Hen
The Hatch attended one lecture at the ANU. She isn't a member here though and I am sure she doesn't want to discuss it.

Sorry Lo.

Re: A “Spiritual” definition

Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:19 pm
by dgs49
Getting back to the original post, there is no need or call to go beyond the clear English meaning of the word, "spirit," which invariably refers to a being or entity which is not physical or tangible in nature. In short, a supernatural being.

Atheists disdain belief in the supernatural, as an absolute first principle.

If this writer believes that meditation is a "spiritual" experience, then he is either NOT an atheist, or he has committed a "grievous error," as his critics assert.