A good catholic education.

[Gob]

It was built in the 1930s to cater for large numbers of Irish families moving to the area.

Now, in a sign of changing times, a Catholic primary school in Birmingham has an intake that is 90 per cent Muslim.



All pupils at the Rosary Catholic Primary attend Catholic assemblies in the morning and Mass at the nearby church, while crucifixes and statues of the Virgin Mary line the corridors.

But only around 40 pupils out of 400 are Catholics – most of the rest are Muslims of Pakistani origin.

The school is among a few dozen Catholic primaries, mainly in the Midlands and North West, where churchgoing children are now outnumbered by Muslims.

At Rosary, in the Saltley area of Birmingham, some of the pupils’ parents are imams and some live in nearby mosques.

Father Bernard Kelly, the local parish priest and Rosary’s chairman of governors, said: ‘This is a changing parish like all parishes in strong Muslim neighbourhoods.

‘Our school is largely made up of Muslim children whose parents are happy to have them attend a Christian school. For the church, this is a new reality.

‘At school, the pupils hear about the teachings of Jesus but they are not imposed on them.’

He added: ‘I’m sure we will be here in another 80 years’ time. Why not?’

The primary school, along with a church and a secondary school, were set up in the 1930s to serve a large Irish Catholic population.

Eighty years on, the school has been praised by Ofsted for ‘outstanding’ work promoting cohesion among diverse local communities.

John Gubbins, the school’s headmaster, said: ‘We follow the Catholic Diocese programme for religious education which pupils are taught for ten to 15 per cent of the week.’

All pupils, aged three to 11, take part in plays to celebrate Christmas and Easter, while Muslim holy days are also marked.

At the same time, the school provides opportunities for ‘multi-faith prayer’.

Most pupils who arrive at the school do not speak English as their first language.

Mr Gubbins added: ‘When I came here 11 years ago, it was 30 per cent Catholic and 70 per cent Muslim.

‘In September, eight out of our intake of 50 pupils will be Catholic, and many of them are from Polish or African families.’

[Econoline]

It seems a bit odd, but if the parish is okay with teaching Catholicism to Muslims, and the Muslim parents are okay with their children attending mass and being taught Catholic doctrine, well, then, all's well that ends well, right? I guess Muslims are more comfortable with Catholicism than Protestants are?

[Gob]

[Sean]

They're talking about this like anyone has a choice in the matter...

Primary schools in the UK operate within very strict catchment areas. The catchment area for this school would be Saltley, Alum Rock, Bordesley Green and possibly Small Heath. All of these are in the part of Birmingham known locally as "Little India". Population density in these suburbs is huge and overwhelmingly Indian, Pakistani and Bangladeshi. The parent will have about three or four schools to choose from (if they're lucky) and the school must accept students from it's catchment area. I doubt that there would be enough Catholic kids in the area to fill a single classroom!

[dgs49]

The U.S. has a lot of inner-City Catholic schools that cater primarily to African Americans kids who are, if anything, Protestant (mainly Baptist). They generally don't go to Mass every day, but "religion" is a subject on the curriculum, and I would guess that it is fairly standard Catholic stuff.

The schools are largely financed by the local Catholic parish, with a big hand from the Diocese. The tuitions cover a small fraction.

Win/win.

[dales]

I guess Muslims are more comfortable with Catholicism than Protestants are?

Watch those broad brush strokes.

Lumping all Protestants into a block of anti-muslim intolerance is inaccurate.

[Econoline]

Sean, I didn't know that when I made my earlier post.

In the U.S., public (i.e. state-supported) schools generally have strict geographic boundaries (= "catchment areas" I guess?) in which students must reside or pay a rather substantial penalty/fee. (Except for the newfangled "charter schools"--but that's a whole 'nother kettle of Vegemite.) Because of our strict separation of church and state, schools with any religious affiliation generally get NO public money at all and are supported only by parents, donors, and the larger religious organization, whatever that may be. As a result, they usually have no geographic boundaries, and, increasingly, no religious-affiliation restrictions for their enrolled students--and as dgs pointed out, it's become more and more common for Catholic schools to have almost no Catholic students.

dales, what I meant by my remark (based on an incorrect, i.e., American, view of British Catholic schools) was that this story seemed to indicate that in the UK there was more Muslim tolerance of Catholics than there was Protestant tolerance of Catholics. (Since my starting premise was incorrect, my conclusion may also have been incorrect.)

[loCAtek]

the school must accept students from it's catchment area. I doubt that there would be enough Catholic kids in the area to fill a single classroom!

Wait one... wasn't Prof. Dawkins proposing that the UK abolish faith-base schools because [supposedly] they refused students and staff who were not of their religion?

Richard Dawkins: Faith School Menace?

[Sean]

I think Professor Dawkins was more concerned about the fact that these schools are designed to indoctrinate children.

[loCAtek]

Indoctrinate them to what: Christian, Muslim, Hindi?

If a child chooses not to have a faith, are they made to adopt one?

[loCAtek]

Further thought: if a child is taught to accept/tolerate all faiths/philosophies as 'spirituality', and allowed education beside Jewish, Christian, Hindi, etc. ; instead of just being focused on one dogma, be it secular or religious; than isn't this spirituality what Sam Harris suggested?

[Sean]

If a child chooses not to have a faith...

lo, you still obviously don't know how indoctrination works...

[loCAtek]

So, in a school that allows multiple faiths, what are they being indoctrinated into?


Spirituality?


Isn't that what Sam Harris suggested?

[Sean]

I think that Professor Dawkins may have been speaking more generally and not about this particular school.

[Crackpot]

I think Professor Dawkins was more concerned about the fact that these schools are designed to indoctrinate children.

What school isn't?

[loCAtek]

No prob, after you;

lo, you still obviously don't know how indoctrination works...

Very well, educate me.

...I did politely ask first.

[Sean]

No thanks, we've been here before and I was banging my head against a brick wall then.

Anyway, why would I after you just posted that snotty pic?

[loCAtek]

Don't blame me, blame Albert.

[PMS Princess]

Cuz we all know what an asshole Albert can be. ...what WAS he thinking?

[Sean]

Well obviously Einstein is off my Xmas card list. I'm not sure why he's suddenly being arsey towards me though...