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Marriage equality
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:26 am
by Gob
A race row has broken out in Mississippi after a black couple were turned away from the church in which they planned to get married.
Charles and Te'Andrea Wilson had set the date and posted the invitations but, the day before the wedding, the pastor of the predominantly white First Baptist Church of Crystal Springs said the ceremony would not go ahead.
He told them a small number of church members had virulently opposed holding the event at the church, and he faced being sacked if he went ahead with it.
The church in Crystal Springs, a 5000-strong suburb of the state capital Jackson, was founded in 1883 and no black couple has ever been married there.
Miss Wilson, who regularly attended the church, said: "A wedding is a Christian ceremony. Where's the Christianity in there? My nine-year-old daughter was going to the church with us. How would you say to your nine-year-old, 'We cannot get married here because, guess what sweetie, we're black'."
"I blame those members who knew and call themselves Christians and didn't stand up. I feel like it was blatant racial discrimination."
Pastor Stan Weatherford, who is white, said he wanted to go ahead with the wedding but decided to carry it out elsewhere as a compromise. He moved it to a mostly black church nearby, where he married the couple on July 21.
Casey Kitchens, 37, who is a member of the First Baptist Church of Crystal Springs, said she and most of the congregation were "ashamed" at the refusal to marry a black couple, and that they had known nothing about it. She said: "I can't fathom why. How unfair. How unjust. It's just wrong."
The Daily Telegraph, London
Read more:
http://www.smh.com.au/world/us-church-r ... z225Ilx06C
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 3:05 pm
by dgs49
She, "...feels like it was blatant racial discrimination"?
Nah, they probably didn't like her hairstyle.
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 4:06 pm
by Lord Jim
I had intended to start a thread about this....
I think it's cruel and reprehensible....
These folks weren't trying to make some sort of a scene, they were accepted members of the church....
The racist cowards (I don't see any of them identifying themselves) who complained should be ashamed of themselves, as should the craven minister who caved in to them....
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:59 pm
by Big RR
Two things surprised me here: first, that they still wanted that gutless minister to perform the ceremony, and second, that a church with even a significant minority of such idiots would have black members (or at least regular attendees, not sure what their status was). It boggles the mind that people who profess to follow the teachings of jesus would behave this way, and I would hope the rest of the congregation would take their church back from the idiots and get rid of that minister who accepted it as the status quo.
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am
by Sean
You guys describe the minister as gutless and craven but I can't really blame him for doing what he needed to do in order to keep his job in the current economic climate...
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:05 pm
by rubato
A minister is in a position of moral leadership.
If he is incapable of that he needs another job, and should have his ass fired by his current congregation for moral turpitude.
In this version of "High Noon" Gary Cooper goes to Lee Van Cleef, hands over his guns, pussies out and leaves town.
This minister lacks either moral courage or moral clarity. He's unfit.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:54 pm
by Big RR
I disagree Sean. A minister represents his or her congregation and provides it with some sort of leadership and moral guidance; further, (s)he is the face of the congregation to the public at large. In the instant situation, his caving to the ridiculous demands of a few to keep his job is an abrogation of both of those responsibilities. Bad job market or not, a minister helps no one by doing something experdient merely to keep his job; he has cast his lot with the bigots, and all those in the congregation (presumably a majority) who don't share those views have every right to get rid of him.
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 2:03 pm
by dgs49
I agree with rubato?
Wow.
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:18 pm
by Lord Jim
I believe Sean may have been speaking tongue-in-cheek....
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:36 pm
by Big RR
On reading it again, you may well be right.
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 4:45 pm
by Crackpot
I think the pastor was playing church politics in order to preserve his congregation. (Not that I approve of his decision) I think he was trying to keep the status quo in the short term by appeasing the racist (likly more elder) members Keeping them in the fold where they can be minimalised avoidng a split and the unfortunate creation of an outwardly racist sect.
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:21 am
by rubato
This is an example of the complete moral corruption of the White christian church in the south during the civil rights movement.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:12 am
by Lord Jim
This is an example of the complete moral corruption of the White christian church in the south during the civil rights movement.
yrs,
rubato
Those whose need to hate overwhelms them will invent negative generalzations; it is like the hatred of gays, blacks, &c. Mindless.
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:55 am
by Gob
rubato wrote:This is an example of the complete moral corruption of the White christian church in the south during the civil rights movement.
Not it's not, this is an example of what still happens today, (or at least around July 30, 2012,) the African-American Civil Rights Movement happened between 1955–1968.
Fortunately, your total and utter inability to admit to your poor English ability, will now lead you to try and claim what you wrote was grammatically correct, in some contrived fashion.
Possibly what you meant to say was;
This is an example of the complete moral corruption which exists in the White christian church in the south, and which started during the civil rights movement.
or
This is an example of the still extant complete moral corruption of the White christian church, corruption which started in the south during the civil rights movement.
or
This is an example of the complete moral corruption of the White christian church in the south, which has existed since the civil rights movement occurred.
But what you actually wrote, was bollocks.
No need to thank me for the lesson, I've taught remedial classes before, and enjoyed them.
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:23 am
by liberty
I don’t know much about this story but I can talk about the Southern Baptist Church in general: it is something that has bothered me about the church for a long time; the pastor does not have much autonomy. A small clique donates most of the money that supports the church. Often they use this influence to control the pastor and church programs. Some use it to aid their business. And others just likes to exercise their power. I don’t like it but I don’t know what can done about it.
If I hear of a law suit arising from this then I will suspect there was a lot more to the story than was reported.
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 10:23 am
by Sean
Lord Jim wrote:I believe Sean may have been speaking tongue-in-cheek....
You're getting better at spotting these Jim...
Once bitten eh?
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:51 am
by Lord Jim
Once bitten eh?
You know Sean, I almost added those exact words to my post...
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:06 pm
by Lord Jim
Not it's not, this is an example of what still happens today, (or at least around July 30, 2012,) the African-American Civil Rights Movement happened between 1955–1968.
Fortunately, your total and utter inability to admit to your poor English ability, will now lead you to try and claim what you wrote was grammatically correct, in some contrived fashion.
Hands up all those surprised to learn that rubato did not know that in order for something to be an "example" it must be a member of that group, and that an event that took place 40 years after an historical period can not possibly be a member of the group of events which took place during that period....
What this is actually an "example" of, (or more accurately, proof of) is the fact that there are still racists in our society, and that there are still people who will cave or pander to them, especially if they believe their livelihood requires it.....
Ugly and unfortunate facts to be sure, but not something that I imagine comes as news to anybody....
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:47 pm
by rubato
The truth might be hateful for southern whites to hear but it is not an expression of hatred. What they DID was hatred and what they still DO is hatred.
The white church in the south supported Jim Crow and only a tiny few opposed it. If they knew what they were supporting was wrong then they were all cowards, but few rose even to that despicable level.
This is a fact of history.
That is why many decades later white christians are emboldened to threaten their pastor in order to perpetuate a racist tradition. And this is why the pastor knew the threat was credible and the cost to him would be severe. It is the same group as before and even many of the same individuals.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Marriage equality
Posted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 2:06 pm
by liberty
[quote="rubato And this is why the pastor knew the threat was credible and the cost to him would be severe.
yrs,
rubato[/quote]
Is it not enough to make one think that perhaps Catholics are right; a priest should be a single man with no wife and family to worry about supporting?