Talking to kids about drugs

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Gob
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Talking to kids about drugs

Post by Gob »

Many years ago, when I was a resident in pediatrics, an adolescent patient asked me if I had ever smoked pot. It wasn’t a friendly question, more an oh-yeah-says-you response to my own inquiries, warning me off.

No patient has asked me that for decades. But recently, I have found myself in several all-pediatrician conversations about the topic.

Doctors, and the parents who look to them for advice, need a way to integrate their standards of honesty with what we know about preventing substance abuse — and with new research that makes it clear we know a lot more today than anyone did when we were young. (Which may help explain some of the dumb decisions made by so many of us, including me.)

In particular, scientists understand much more about the neurobiology of the teenage brain and the risks of experimenting with drugs and alcohol during adolescence. While we used to think the brain was relatively mature by 16 or 18, in fact it is still developing into the mid-20s.

What does develop early is the pleasure-seeking area, the nucleus accumbens. The regions that help with abstract thinking, decision-making and judgment are still maturing, and therefore less likely to inhibit the pleasure-seeking behavior. So drugs and alcohol can actually lead to permanent changes in the way the brain works — in particular, many experts think, a greater likelihood of addiction in adulthood.

But giving sage advice to the young has never been a simple task, and when a parent’s own history is brought up, it gets even more complicated.

There’s a moral question, for grown-ups who pride themselves on honesty and openness. There’s a fear that no matter how carefully you spell out the lesson of your own story, you may be offering your child an implicit lesson about the lack of consequences, a kind of I-did-it-and-I’m-fine parable.

And there’s a common parental anxiety about losing the moral high ground, a fear that someday this will be thrown back in your face. That can be especially troubling in more fraught situations, when children or parents (or both) are dealing with drug and alcohol problems.

“That comes up all the time when I’m counseling parents,” said Dr. Sharon Levy, director of the adolescent substance abuse program at Children’s Hospital Boston. “They say, ‘Well, what should I tell her — or not?’ ”The research on this point is limited. But there is evidence to suggest that when parents provide more information and better modeling early on, their children’s risk of substance abuse goes down. And a 2009 study by the Hazelden addiction treatment center in Minnesota found evidence that many teenagers believed that parental honesty about alcohol use was a positive influence.

Of course, every parent, every child and every situation is different, and there is no fixed rule that says parents and doctors need to offer any particular information about their drug or alcohol use, past or present.

Instead, it’s important to figure out “why are you asking, what’s going on around you?” said Dr. Janet F. Williams, professor of pediatrics at the University of Texas Health Science Center at San Antonio and head of the American Academy of Pediatrics’ committee on substance abuse.

“What you think they want to know may not be at all why they’re asking,” she said. And as with other important conversations, take account of the child’s developmental stage; you answer a question from a 12-year-old and a 22-year-old in different terms and in different detail.

You don’t need to tell everything. But if you decide to answer, don’t lie. “Tell them without glorifying it,” Dr. Levy said, “and if you think you made a mistake, tell them that too.”

In fact, a child who asks a parent this question may be worrying over how and when to bring it up. Don’t assume that the agonizing and the self-consciousness are all on your conflicted, guilty parental side.

Treat the question with respect, and use it, as the experts would say, to keep the conversation going. It may not be a question you particularly want to be asked, but it’s a larger conversation that as parents, we know we need to encourage. (Two useful Web sites are teens.drugabuse.gov, which has information geared to adolescents; and teen-safe.org, which offers advice on talking with teenagers.)

What about that familiar parental nightmare, the angry adolescent who reacts to discipline or reproof by turning it around on you with an accusation about your own transgressions? Deborah R. Simkin, a psychiatrist who is a liaison to Dr. Williams’s committee from the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry, drew an analogy to an alcoholic who resists treatment by trying to bring up other people’s issues.

“The kid’s trying to divert the attention from an appropriate intervention by a parent,” she said. In such cases, the parent’s response should be clear: “We’re not going to discuss what I did, we’re going to discuss what you did.”

What we want to do as parents is transmit wisdom — even if we acquired it the hard way — without our children’s having to take risks. “So you drove without a seat belt and you didn’t die in a car accident, does that mean you want your kid driving without a seat belt?” Dr. Levy asked. Or as Dr. Williams put it:

“If the way it’s presented is, ‘This is risky, and I hope that you don’t have to touch the hot stove to find out you get burned,’ they don’t have to take the same chance.”

And finally, after all the cautions and the anxieties, it’s essential to come back to the positives — “always remembering to notice the good about your child,” Dr. Williams said.

After all, the most important message a parent can give is not about the mistakes that can derail a child, but about the joys of finding your way.

Tell your child, in Dr. Simkin’s words, that “I would prefer you to work on finding your passion, finding what in life you want to do” — and celebrate that potential.

And for that very reason, Dr. Williams said, “I would like them to have every brain cell they can have.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/healt ... f=homepage
Interesting artcle.

Funnily enough, last year, following a talk at her scouts meeting, Hatch asked us the dreaded question; "Have you ever taken drugs". We were honest and upfront, and both admitted that we had, in the past, taken drugs. Hatch is very, very, anti-drug, she was horrified by images of people "smoking pot" in the movie of Woodstock, and still, at 15 yrs oldd, will not take a glass of wine with a meal.

But she was grateful that we were honest, and I don't think it gave her any incentuive nor inducement to experiment herself.

What's your experience or intent when you have in the past, or will in the future, talk to your kids about drugs?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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dales
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by dales »

Bravo for being upfront with Hatch!

Teens can zero in on hypocricy with amazing accuracy.

I told both mu daughters to study the scientific evidence both pro and con and make up their own mind.

How could I of all people tell them not to use MJ?

The older one does not and the younger one does on occasion.

MJ (like ETOH) should NOT be used by anyone under the age of 21.

Now, about tobacco........................................................... :lol:

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
rubato

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loCAtek
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by loCAtek »

While he was here, Protech had friends and street acquaintances that smoked pot. He likely 'experimented' a few times, but I never gave permission or approval of it's use. At one open discussion, he tried the position that pot was a 'harmless' drug, look at how many people used it and nothing happened to them. My counter was; and look at how demotivated they are; they use it so as not feel bad about being unproductive. From my experience, I told him I knew that getting stoned made you accept being bored. From experiencing stoned folks around him, he could see my point. I can't say I completely negated the peer pressure, but it made think before he became just another stoner.

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Rick
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by Rick »

I never experimented.

I was into full scale research...
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is

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Gob
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by Gob »

Thanks Dales, and I agree, hypocrisy does shine out if you try to hide it.

You may note that we answered honestly about past use. (She didn't, fortunately, ask about any "current use':))

But this scenario is one that all parents, past present or never users of recreation substances will probably have to face at some point.

I'm wondering (or more accurately "I'm a nosy bastard") what Jim, and Sean & SMF, are thinking they may say when "that time arrives".
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Crackpot
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by Crackpot »

it depends on how the question is framed.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Sean
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by Sean »

If I'm asked the same question I can honestly answer that I tried mj in my youth, didn't care for it and didn't bother with it again. Apart from alcohol and nicotine I have never taken any other drugs. Working in the music business I saw too many people fucked up on all sorts to ever want to try any of it.

SMF's answer on the other hand may need to be ever so slightly different... ;)
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?

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SisterMaryFellatio
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by SisterMaryFellatio »

I guess that was my cue........

I too was a bit of a chemical girl...dope never did it for me unless I need to sleep after a big night!..

I will be completely honest with Pudd when he asks me.....I fully expect to get the phone call from another kids parent telling me that hes been at the vodka and is passed out somewhere at 14. i am also prepared that he will experiment with drugs. I just hope I will have educated him enough to do it "sensibly" (a bad choice of words i know but I can think of another) As much as i wish that he won't I am realsitic enough that he does have half my genes... I am just hoping it could be the more sensible ones!

Gob and Hen...hatch is an angel....at her age I had been brought home by the cops for under age drinking and i was pissed off they confiscated my cider cos I hadn't finished it. I was also suspended from school and always is in isolation for class disruption!

Go the Hatch!!

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Gob
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by Gob »

Yep, we're so lucky.

At her age I was regular dope smoker, was drinking in pubs* and christ knows how many brain cells I deleted at that stage. The only thing I wasn't doing was sex, not through lack of trying though...

Now her mother on the other hand....



* One day I said to the landlady of my local, "It's my birthday today Mary, any chance of a free pint?" She gave me one, then asked how old I was; "18 today!" I got banned, I'd been drinking there since I was 14.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

Jarlaxle
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by Jarlaxle »

Never been a drinker here...a few beers, occasionally, that's it. (Yes, some of them were consumed before I was 21 years of age.) Never anything harder than beer and none of that in almost ten years.

And a tip SMF might have wished she knew in her teen years: I have seen people buy a flask of whiskey or rum and pour it into an iced tea bottle. They can drink it right in front of a cop & he's none the wiser.
Treat Gaza like Carthage.

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loCAtek
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by loCAtek »

Mexican excuse for underage drinking to the cops: 'It's my dad's, he said I could have it!'

rubato
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by rubato »

The truth is powerful. So is lying.

One of them is destructive both to the speaker and the listener and makes both weaker.

yrs,
rubato

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SisterMaryFellatio
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by SisterMaryFellatio »

Jarlaxle wrote:Never been a drinker here...a few beers, occasionally, that's it. (Yes, some of them were consumed before I was 21 years of age.) Never anything harder than beer and none of that in almost ten years.

And a tip SMF might have wished she knew in her teen years: I have seen people buy a flask of whiskey or rum and pour it into an iced tea bottle. They can drink it right in front of a cop & he's none the wiser.

i think they still might have guessed i was sat on a headstone in a cemetery laughing and carrying on. When the copper took the bottle off me I then became rather mouthy! Iced tea disguise or not he would have caught me!

Jarlaxle
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by Jarlaxle »

Yeah...I'd bet that only works for the FIRST flask of whiskey of the day.

But I wish I had known you when I was in high school. You sound like you would have been profitable!

(I borrowed my grandmother's big 9-passenger station wagon and ferried drunks home for $10 a head.)
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BoSoxGal
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by BoSoxGal »

I used drugs both in my youth and in my adulthood. I truly regret much of that use. I believe I closed off many possibilities for myself by taking that path - not just a career in the FBI/CIA, lol.

I believe my casual use as a youth and the perceived lack of consequence plus an attitude of defiance of authority allowed me to too easily slip into semi-regular usage when I was struggling to cope with difficulties in my life in early adulthood, and that adult usage limited my academic achievements significantly. I say that fully cognizant that compared to many folks I've achieved a great deal academically and professionally - but I had aspirations that were unmet which I would attribute to a lack of motivation/ability related to those however brief periods of semi-regular drug use.

However, I have also learned to honor all of this as my life's journey.

I much prefer sober living, and to be high on experiences rather than substances. Coming from a long line of addicts, I'm really glad to be able to say that with full commitment at the tender age of late 30s. I've got a long time left to be primarily sober and fully productive. I do still drink socially, though my tolerance now is such that I never have more than a few drinks at a time.

That is exactly what I would tell my child, and have already told my nieces and nephews.
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by @meric@nwom@n »

Drugs have never been my cuppa. I have smoked pot, I believe 3 times, which were ridiculous efforts. Basically all I got for my efforts was sore lungs from coughing and a splitting headache. I have used alcohol a few times to the fall down drunk stage. Nothing else.

I would kind of like to try acid some time. Maybe when I am 90 and figure , "Oh what the hell!" I might do that and skydive at the same time.

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Sue U
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

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@meric@nwom@n wrote:I would kind of like to try acid some time. Maybe when I am 90 and figure , "Oh what the hell!" I might do that and skydive at the same time.
Probably not a real good idea to have your first experience with both simultaneously.

Though I admit I'm speaking as someone who has never skydived.
GAH!

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Gob
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by Gob »

I've done both, though not at the same time.

I highly recommend them.

But NOT at the same time.

When I am old and fucked, I intend experiencing life on an occasional tide of good drugs and high quality scotch.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

@meric@nwom@n

Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by @meric@nwom@n »

I don't even know how to buy drugs. I don't know anyone who uses drugs. I would like to know how you buy them but not wind up in jail.

Got pointers?

Jarlaxle
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Re: Talking to kids about drugs

Post by Jarlaxle »

You can probably pick up just about anything you want at the nearest public high school!
Treat Gaza like Carthage.

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