Plan B Forum

The Pope waded into the debate over the Ugandan bill that would impose the death penalty for homosexual activity, by conferring a public blessing on parliamentary speaker Rebecca Kadaga, who has been at the forefront of efforts to push the bill through parliament.

Through this one action, the Pope has laid bare all of the meaningless Roman Catholic rhetoric about how much gay people are "loved" by the Church, and has demonstrated that the Roman Catholic Church wishes to see gay people executed for the love they would show to each other.

Maybe he was tricked; like the time a joker slipped a bill through the Texas legislature recognizing the Albert DeSalvo for his efforts at population control.


yrs,
rubato

Looks like Cameroon is no piker when it comes to actually prosecuting people for homosexuality: Cameroon: Three-Year Term for "Gay" Text Message. Wonder if Bailey's Irish Cream will decide that it has to to "man-up" its advertising?

I doubt any trickery was needed considering the Pope thinks gay marriage is a threat to world peace.

So a gay Canadian website reports that a politician got a "public" blessing from the pope. This politician presumably, amidst a lifetime of other work, supports a bill that "reportedly" still includes the death penalty for certain forms of sodomy.

One might reasonably infer that the journalistic standards for "gay" reportage are not quite up to the standard for "straight" reporters. Reportedly?

Couldn't the reporter find out? Too much to ask?

I also received a "public" blessing from the former pope. Me and about 50,000 other people in St Peter's Square. Presumably, Il Papa was not aware that some of us were notorious sinners. Otherwise he would have excluded some of us from the flow of santifying grace. And the planary indulgence, assuming such a thing still exists.

Slow day, scooter?

Of course she referred to meeting with the pope to receive the blessing; do you really think you met with the pope when you received your 50,000 person blessing.

How about some facts? To say that the Pope gave any blessing to a bill to "kill" homosexuals is an outright lie. What else should one expect?

There was a Mass attended by thousands, amongst whom were the Ugandan delegation. All the "pilgrims" received one and the same blessing, including this woman. The woman met the Pope as part of a delegation of Ugandans and presented him with a picture of some shrine. It's not clear in which order these things occurred.

http://www.parliament.go.ug/new/index.p ... tican-mass

Pope Benedict XVI has given blessings to Uganda Parliament Speaker Rt.Hon. Rebecca Kadaga during a mass attended by thousands of pilgrims at the Vatican Wednesday.

Kadaga who led a delegation of Ugandan legislators to the Vatican expressed delight at meeting the Pope and visiting St Peter’s Basilicca.

“I think this is a moment that cannot be repeated. We have been reading about him, hearing stories about St.Peter’s Basilica but now we are here physically. I think it is something that I will remember all my life. Its a very great moment and I thank God for this opportunity,” she said minutes after meeting the Pope.

The Speaker dedicated to all Ugandans readings from the book of St.Mark which the Pope quoted in several languages during the Vatican mass.



Rt. Hon.Kadaga handed over to the Pope a portrait of the Uganda matyrs shrine Namugongo, a place where followers of the faith were murdered in cold blood.

MPs Paula Turyahikayo, Elijah Okupa, Abdu Katuntu, Betti Amongi, and Chris Baryomunsi who accompanied the Speaker were also delighted by the golden moment noting that their faith had been renewed by the Pope’s blessings. MP Abdu Katuntu a muslim by faith called the Vatican visit one of his most memorable moments.

“For a Muslim like me this has been a very exciting experience to be in the Holy See and attending mass with the Holy Father this is an experience to remember,” MP Katuntu said . . .

. . . The Ugandan delegation was in Rome to attend the 7th Consultative Assembly of Parliamentarians for the International Criminal Court and the World Parliamentary Conference on Human Rights.

Clearly, the Pope endorsed killing sodomites.

What is the issue?

The Ugandan delegation was in Rome to attend the 7th Consultative Assembly of Parliamentarians for the International Criminal Court and the World Parliamentary Conference on Human Right

Irony much?

In defense of the Pope, he probably does not know very much about Ugandan situations

Meade

Since you're having such a difficult time understanding, Dave, I'll connect the dots for you.

Popes are not exactly known for refraining from commenting on the domestic politics of any country, nor have they hesitated to engage in a public dressing down of politicians whom they view as espousing policies which are at odds with Catholic teachings. Since the Church in its pronouncements has taken an increasingly dim view of capital punishment in recent decades, and since there is no way that this proposed application of the death penalty could possibly meet the Catholic Catechism standard as "the only possible way of defending human lives" that MIGHT provide a justification for capital punishment, it is quite telling that the pope (and the entire Catholic hierarchy in Uganda, for that matter) has not chosen to comment on this planned wholesale violation of the fifth commandment by the state, especially when given the opportunity to speak directly with one of the prime proponents of the legislation. It demonstrates a supreme indifference to the lives of gay and lesbian Ugandans that will be snuffed out.

But since when has the Catholic Church given a shit about gay people.

MajGenl.Meade wrote: In defense of the Pope, he probably does not know very much about Ugandan situations

Shome mishtake, shurely? Ed.

It might be enlightening to see exactly what the law (or proposed law) says. The gay reporter in the article you linked wouldn't even go so far as to say that the bill actually sought to impose the death penalty, merely that this was "reportedly" the case.

Should the pope comment on proposed laws, or laws that actually exist? Laws that are actually enforced, or laws that are merely window dressing (which would probably be the case here)? I generally recall that all of the United States had laws that criminalized male-on-male buggery, but they were essentially dead-letter.

Should the Pope publicly embarrass any politician who sponsors or promotes a law that the Church finds morally repugnant? Would any politician in the world ever seek a public audience with the Pope?

The Church's position on the death penalty generally is fairly well known, but like many Catholic teachings, is not accepted by many of the "Faithful." In my own view, the Scriptures are not clear at all on the moral rectitude of rightful execution by the Sovereign. Did not JC himself willingly submit to the death penalty? I think the death penalty is stupid in today's context, but should be available as a sanction of last resort for those who are unalterably a threat to society (even those who would live with them in prison).

The Church's position on homosexuality is also right out there for all to see. While the inclination may be innate, we are responsible for our CONDUCT, and homosexual sodomy is sinful, under all circumstances, as is heterosexual intercourse outside Marriage.

Does the Pope's recognition of this delegation constitute an endorsement of one provision of one draft piece of legislation that "reportedly" calls for execution of sodomites?

This is apparently your take on the whole thing. Most people would not care one way or another, but to the extent they would give it any consideration at all, they would think it too trivial to even be brought up.

Gob wrote:

MajGenl.Meade wrote: In defense of the Pope, he probably does not know very much about Ugandan situations

Shome mishtake, shurely? Ed.

Well spotted! (cont. p. 97)

dgs49 wrote:It might be enlightening to see exactly what the law (or proposed law) says. The gay reporter in the article you linked wouldn't even go so far as to say that the bill actually sought to impose the death penalty, merely that this was "reportedly" the case.

Just because you have been living under a rock for the past several years does not mean that others have to indulge you, but here, jut so you can't use it as an excuse to skirt around the issue.

Should the pope comment on proposed laws, or laws that actually exist?

The fact that same-sex marriage is still not a reality in most countries has not stopped the pope from railing against its legalization. Why should this be any different?

I generally recall that all of the United States had laws that criminalized male-on-male buggery, but they were essentially dead-letter.

Of course you are wrong, otherwise there could not have been cases reaching the Supreme Court on the issue, but if that is what you need to believe in order to justify them, go right ahead.

Should the Pope publicly embarrass any politician who sponsors or promotes a law that the Church finds morally repugnant? Would any politician in the world ever seek a public audience with the Pope?

It has never stopped this pope or any of his predecessors before. Why should this case be any different?

The Church's position on the death penalty generally is fairly well known, but like many Catholic teachings, is not accepted by many of the "Faithful."

The same can be said of abortion, birth control, same-sex marriage, stem cell research, etc., etc. Has that stopped the pope from commenting on any of those issues?

The Church's position on homosexuality is also right out there for all to see. While the inclination may be innate, we are responsible for our CONDUCT, and homosexual sodomy is sinful, under all circumstances, as is heterosexual intercourse outside Marriage.

And the Church's position on homosexual activity would be compromised by the pope speaking out against the execution of homosexuals, how, exactly?

Does the Pope's recognition of this delegation constitute an endorsement of one provision of one draft piece of legislation that "reportedly" calls for execution of sodomites?

Qui tacet consentire videtur. He had a perfect opportunity to speak, and yet did not.

Most people would not care one way or another, but to the extent they would give it any consideration at all, they would think it too trivial to even be brought up.

So in your mind the pope sees the execution of homosexuals as trivial. Thank you for confirming that for me.

dgs49 wrote: It might be enlightening to see exactly what the law (or proposed law) says. The gay reporter in the article you linked wouldn't even go so far as to say that the bill actually sought to impose the death penalty, merely that this was "reportedly" the case.

The bill supposedly has dropped the death penalty in favor of mere life imprisonment. But we won't know for sure until the bill is voted upon.

MajGenl.Meade wrote: How about some facts? To say that the Pope gave any blessing to a bill to "kill" homosexuals is an outright lie. What else should one expect?

This is the same Pope who states that homosexuals are a threat to world peace.

Grim Reaper wrote:The bill supposedly has dropped the death penalty in favor of mere life imprisonment. But we won't know for sure until the bill is voted upon.

That didn't happen. Several cabinet members tried to get the mover of the bill to agree to that amendment prior to resubmitting it, and had announced that it had happened, but the mover said he never agreed to any such thing, and the speaker, who is the subject of this thread, has vowed to get the bill passed as is.

American evangelicals are doing in Uganda what Al Qaeda are doing in many other places.

When will we learn that it is the religious nutcases who are the source of all the horror, bloodshed, torture, and evil?

The enlightenment only occurred because religion was suppressed in Europe and stripped of secular power.


yrs,
rubato

Scooter wrote:That didn't happen. Several cabinet members tried to get the mover of the bill to agree to that amendment prior to resubmitting it, and had announced that it had happened, but the mover said he never agreed to any such thing, and the speaker, who is the subject of this thread, has vowed to get the bill passed as is.

Either way, death penalty or life imprisonment, is a completely disproportionate response to a person's sexual orientation.

When will we learn that it is the religious nutcases who are the source of all the horror, bloodshed, torture, and evil?

Really....

























To name but a few....

When will you ever learn to stop shooting of your bigoted, ignorant mouth on subjects about which you know less than nothing, so you can stop getting handed your ass over and over?

My guess at this point would be "never".....

Which suits me just fine, because I'm perfectly happy to continue to hand it to you....

Grim Reaper wrote:

MajGenl.Meade wrote: How about some facts? To say that the Pope gave any blessing to a bill to "kill" homosexuals is an outright lie. What else should one expect?

This is the same Pope who states that homosexuals are a threat to world peace.

But "to say that the Pope gave any blessing to a bill to "kill" homosexuals is an outright lie. What else should one expect?"

Let me say the important part again as an aid to liars:

'To say that the Pope gave any blessing to a bill to "kill" homosexuals is an outright lie'