Hundreds of Orthodox Jews who visit Aberystwyth on holiday every year will now go elsewhere after the university banned them from lighting candles in their student village accommodation.
The community has been visiting the town for more than 20 years, renting about 120 houses at Pentre Jane Morgan.
But Aberystwyth University said it was refusing to allow candles in the houses on health and safety grounds.
The holiday organisers said lighting candles was part of their religion.
The Jewish families have traditionally visited the Ceredigion town every year for two weeks in July or August.
But last year they were told they would only be allowed to stay at Pentre Jane Morgan in 2013 if they agreed not to light candles.
The university said its decision was based purely on health and safety grounds.
"The use of candles/naked flames in all university residences is prohibited," the university said in a statement.
"This is clearly set out in the terms and conditions which visiting groups are required to sign and abide by during their stay.
"Unfortunately, last year there was more than one incident involving lit candles with this visiting group.
"During negotiations regarding a proposed visit this year the university was asked to remove the parts of the terms and conditions which referred to flames being lit in accommodation and a suggestion was made by the group that covered flames might be more acceptable to the university.
"In reaching its decision not to allow candles to be lit in rooms the university has taken legal and health and safety advice and been in dialogue with the fire service. It has also undertaken its own risk assessment based on the local context and previous incidents."
The university said it would be delighted to welcome the group back as long as it was able to sign its terms and conditions.
'Ready to be safe'
A spokeswoman for the organisers of the Jewish group visiting Aberystwyth said they would be holidaying outside Wales this summer.
"We're very upset. We like Aberystwyth," she said.
"We have found another place to stay this year, but it's not as nice as Aberystwyth.
"Lighting candles on a Friday evening is part of our religion and being asked not to light them is like asking us not to breathe.
"We are ready to be safe - it's in our interests to be safe."
Last August the community was hit by a tragedy when Rabbi Dov Berish Englander, 47, of Stamford Hill, north London, drowned in the sea off Aberystwyth while on holiday in the town.
An inquest in November recorded a verdict of accidental death.
Fuck me pink, they've been lighting candles there for 20 fucking years, and these people light candles every fucking Friday, but now Heath and cunting safety decide to shit all over the idea.
What a bunch of wankers.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
Last August the community was hit by a tragedy when Rabbi Dov Berish Englander, 47, of Stamford Hill, north London, drowned in the sea off Aberystwyth while on holiday in the town.
University of Aberystwyth Health and Safety committee to address problem
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
"Unfortunately, last year there was more than one incident involving lit candles with this visiting group.
I think that this is important. If, for example, they were running around naked with lit candles up their arses last year then I can't really blame the H&S committee for not wanting a repeat performance.
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?
I would guess that nearly all universities have banned candles and open flames for many decades for safety and liability reasons. It was certainly true 35 years ago when I worked for Univ. of California.
There was a tacit understanding that, whatever the rules, people were going to do it anyway. When we had a flood that knocked out electricity for several days most students went home. For the remainder we had a meeting with the campus fire chief and after he got through saying "candles open flames are banned" a staffer said "but what REALLY are we going to do" and he said to make sure they used them safely.
"The rules" are a list of written down guides to behavior. But in the real world there is a level of interpretation which is necessary. I'm not sure why people get their panties in such a twist over the mere written rules without recalling the second step. People like to get worked up about nothing, I guess.
I can see why there is a general prohibition on open flames in university housing, when there is no telling the circumstances in which they might be used. But, as Gob noted, not only have Shabbat candles been lit there for 20 years without incident, in a quick Google search I couldn't find a single story about a fire caused anywhere by Shabbat candles. Obviously, death by drowning is a much more significant and frequently occurring event in Aberystwyth. Why doesn't Health & Safety ban people from swimming?
rubato wrote:"The rules" are a list of written down guides to behavior. But in the real world there is a level of interpretation which is necessary. I'm not sure why people get their panties in such a twist over the mere written rules without recalling the second step. People like to get worked up about nothing, I guess.
Which keeps petty tyrant bureaucrats and the Daily Mail in business.
Sue, candles have not been lit for 20 years without incident. The part of the article I quoted states that there was more than one incident involving lit candles last year. This doesn't necessarily mean fires. It could simply mean that the candles were being used in a risky way (unfortunately the article does not elaborate on the incidents but why would it? Why let facts get in the way of a good story?). If the powers that be felt that the privilege of using lit candles was being abused then they have every right to knock it on the head.
Why is it that when Miley Cyrus gets naked and licks a hammer it's 'art' and 'edgy' but when I do it I'm 'drunk' and 'banned from the hardware store'?
The other side is that the rules were in place for 20 years but this group's representatives had the sense not to make a federal case out of them. Or to interpret them not to forbid the ceremonial use of candles in religious rituals and be discreet. This conflict would have been avoided by more wisdom on their side.
The crackdown might have been the result of an insurance company review.
We had to make changes in procedures and methods here at work because of our insurance company.
rubato wrote:The other side is that the rules were in place for 20 years but this group's representatives had the sense not to make a federal case out of them. Or to interpret them not to forbid the ceremonial use of candles in religious rituals and be discreet. This conflict would have been avoided by more wisdom on their side.
Or was it that the university let it go for 20 years, and then suddenly, unexpectedly, started enforcing the letter of the law last year?
I took the "incidents involving candles" to mean that last year they were discovered lighting their Shabbat candles and then were warned by the university to stop it or don't come back...and that that is what led to their request to remove or alter that part of the rental agreement when it was time to sign it this year.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
— God@The Tweet of God
Rubato: "No one wants the police to come into the dorms and arrest someone because there was a marijuana plant growing on their balcony in full view. Not that anyone is doing that but if there were it would be a mistake. I would hate to see that."
Student: "Ah, right, no one would want someone to see that."
