Plan B Forum

Well, when a certain hack science fiction writer and aspiring revolutionary psychiatric theorist named Lafayette Ronald Hubbard had no luck in the psychiatry business, one of his fellow science fiction writers (reportedly Robert A. Heinlein) suggested that he might have better luck if he repackaged his crackpot psychiatric theories as a religion; Hubbard took Heinlein's advice and went into the religion business, and the rest is history.

Good luck with that.

ETA: I guess Ezekiel had better luck when he switched from the food service business to the religion business too....

One Joseph Smith of upstate New York gave up a promising career finding buried treasure with his magic eyeglasses (that allowed him to see into the earth), to become the founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Although the value of his material wealth is not easily ascertainable, he kept to himself the divine right to condemn to eternal damnation any female, married or not, who refused to "marry" him.

Nice work if you can get it.

Ultimately murdered by a mob while in jail awaiting trial on polygamy and other crimes.

Not such a nice ending.

Not murdered at all. It was in the context of a jail escape, and he was armed at the time. And he was never charged with polygamy. The arrest was for arson.

But you are right; he came to a rather inglorious end, which has since been elevated by LDS to "martyrdom."

He was indicted for polygamy, and then treason, and was in jail at the time. Which is what I recall from the Joseph Smith birthplace in Vermont, and is confirmed by wiki, here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Smith

From the article you linked: " In 1844, Smith and the Nauvoo City Council angered non-Mormons by ordering a printing press destroyed after it was used to publish an exposé critical of Smith's power and practice of polygamy. During the ensuing turmoil, Smith was imprisoned in Carthage, Illinois, and killed when a mob stormed the jailhouse."

I reiterate, he was thrown in jail for ARSON. He was guilty (and proud of) polygamy, but was never seriously prosecuted for it, or for treason - kept moving arond before the authorities could make a case. The aforementioned "mob" was there to break him out of jail. He was given a gun, and was shot in the melee.

"The dissidents formed a competing church[247] and the following month, at Carthage, the county seat, they procured grand jury indictments against Smith for polygamy and other crimes.[248][249] . . . . . Smith initially fled across the Mississippi River, but shortly returned and surrendered to Ford.[260] On June 23, Smith and his brother Hyrum were taken to Carthage to stand trial for inciting a riot.[261] Once the Smiths were in custody, the charges were increased to treason against Illinois.[262]"

ARSON not mentioned anywhere in the piece, but its good to know you read Wiki as selectively as you read case law.

Dgs is just pissy because Mormons practice "Christian "virtues better than Catholics have ever done.

Yrs,
Rubato

My understanding of his bio is not limited to a wiki article. He was jailed because his followers burned down the building where the opposing newspaper was printed. The legal machinations were not relevant to the disturbance or his death. He never went to trial and was never convicted of anything (in this episode).

Both the Encyclopedia Britannica and the Catholic Encyclopedia flatly contradict your attempt at revisionism. For starters, you have warped the timeline. Smith was charged with arson in 1838, in Missouri. Neither account says anything about the printing office being torched in 1844. And both are very clear that a mob attacked the jail and killed Smith, the Catholic Encyclopedia specifying that they were members of the disbanded militia that had been mustered by the Illinois governor. Nothing about any attempted escape.

You're full of shit, as always.

This is getting ridiculous. I will do the research and post it here.

Keep in mind that the information posted on the net is - like that of L. Ron Hubbard - not always reliable, and this is particularly true for sources like Wikipedia.

The Encyclopedia Britannica is not reliable, but you are?

Do you never for a second stop to think what a complete idiot you make of your self with nothing but your own words?

What the LSD have to say about 1838

The 1844 Trial

Priceless typo

Indeed

Hasn't been any decent stuff around for years

So that's what now, three, no, four independent sources that completely debunk Dave's version of the events. But he is going to claim to be right, regardless.

As best I can determine, the facts are basically as follows:

Joseph Smith and his LDS followers had set up a Mormon community in Nauvoo, Illinois. A group of disaffected former followers took it upon themselves to publish an opposition newspaper, and in their one and only publication they criticized Smith for (basically) polygamy and forming a mini-military dictatorship in Nauvoo. Smith and a compliant city council ordered the printing presses to be destroyed.

The presses were destroyed, the building was damaged, and the remaining copies of the publication were burned (I erroneously remembered that the building was burned at that time, but it wasn’t).

The publishers complained to the Nauvoo government and after their complaints had been thrown out by Mormon judges, they brought their complaints to the Governor of Illinois. Physical threats were made against Smith, and Smith declared martial law, forming an army of about 5,000 men to protect his little kingdom from outside interference. Ultimately, the Governor ordered Smith, his brother Hyrum, and several members of the City Council arrested and charged with “riot.” They were brought to Carthage and jailed to await trial. At that point a charge of Treason against the State was added against Joseph and Hyrum, which was a capital offense. Before they could be tried, a mob came to the jail with the intention of killing the Smith brothers, and although they mounted some defense, both were shot to death in the fighting, trying to get out of the jail (escaping?). It is not clear from what I’ve read whether the mob was disaffected Mormons whose printing shop had been destroyed, or Anti-Mormons from the general community. Although no one was convicted for the killing, it is fair to say that he was murdered by the mob.

He was never (at that time) charged with any crimes relating to his polygamy, nor was he by any rational definition a “martyr.” He was not thrown in jail for arson (destroying by fire), but for ordering the destruction by other means.

Translation:

dgs49 wrote:I followed my usual pattern of completely changing my story while pretending that I have been right all along, because I am arrogant enough to think that other posters are too stupid to notice.

Just as I predicted.