Plan B Forum

Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:29 pm**

Labour is demanding an outright ban on men-only clubs, as culture secretary Maria Miller boycotts the Open Championship in Muirfield.

Miller attacked golf's governing body, the Royal and Ancient, last week by saying it should not be "turning a blind eye" to "the sexism that still exists in some quarters".

Now Harriet Harman has gone further, calling for an outright ban on men-only clubs.

"After the recent successes of female sport it's an embarrassment that this year's British Open, a world class sporting event, is being held at a club which does not admit women members," she said.

"It's time that Muirfield dragged itself into the 21st century and let women in. It’s time to ban men-only sport clubs."

Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:35 pm**

The latest bit of insanity from the British Isles.

What about women only organizations or those questioning their sexuality?

Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:40 pm**

They are talking about golf clubs.

What is it about golf that requires a club to be restricted to one sex? Do they play in the nude?

Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:54 pm**

Why can men not choose to join an all male environment?

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:45 am**

Why can't employers choose to hire only males? I'm sure there are many men that would prefer to work in an all-male environment.
Why can't hospitals choose to take only male patients? I'm sure there are many men who are not comfortable receiving medical treatment in the same facilities as women.

If there is some rational basis for maintaining a same-sex environment, that can be justifiable.

"We prefer it that way," isn't a good enough reason, or any reason at all, for that matter.

You're afraid of Muslims coming to the UK and imposing Sharia, but you've already taken some of the first steps yourselves.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2013 1:35 am**

Voluntary associations should be an available choice.

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:39 am**

Scooter wrote:Why can't employers choose to hire only males? I'm sure there are many men that would prefer to work in an all-male environment.
Why can't hospitals choose to take only male patients? I'm sure there are many men who are not comfortable receiving medical treatment in the same facilities as women.

If there is some rational basis for maintaining a same-sex environment, that can be justifiable.

"We prefer it that way," isn't a good enough reason, or any reason at all, for that matter.

You're afraid of Muslims coming to the UK and imposing Sharia, but you've already taken some of the first steps yourselves.

Perhaps universities should only support sports where both men and women compete together. There is no men's and women's basketball team just one team that both have to try out for.

There is no "ladies" tennis at Wimbledon just "tennis" and any women who can compete with men do so. Golf and everything else can be unisex.

Suits me. I'll miss the women's volleyball though, esp. the beach volleyball.

Yrs,
Rubato

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:06 am**

No one said anything about men and women competing together. Try to follow the plot.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:33 am**

Private clubs should be allowed to set rules regarding who can join. It's nobody's business other than the club members as to which sex members need to be to qualify.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:28 am**

I wonder if a "Whites Only" club would survive judicial scrutiny?

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:34 am**

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member."

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:31 pm**

At first I thought they were complaining about strip clubs.

Never mind.

Any group should be allowed to make any rules about their "club" and their membership make up as long as they are a private club.
Members of a club are different from "staff". I would guess that "equal opportunity" laws already apply to who that club can hire.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:50 pm**

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:13 pm**

There is nothing illegal or unconstitutional about a "whites only" CLUB, or private association. It is only when Government is involved that laws and regulations come into play. Of course, government can "become involved" in ways that expand the notion of "involvement" beyond all reason.

The Augusta National Golf Club (I think that's its formal name), where the "Masters" golf tournament is played is the most conspicuous sports-related private club that came under criticism for having a men-only membership policy. The reason they had to hold demonstrations and whatnot was that there was no LEGAL way to force them to include female members.

There is nothing wrong with single-sex, single race, or single ethnicity private associations, as long as there is no nefarious purpose being promoted.

As for rubato's point about athletic competition, there are "advocates" in Pennsylvania right now seeking to abolish gender requirements for interscholastic sports. If they are successful I wonder how that will work with some sports having a "no cuts" policy. Our local HS football team never "cuts" anyone who tries out and wants to play, and they normally have more than 80 players on the roster, most of whom never actually get into a varsity football game.

Seems like a waste to me, but it keeps them off the street, I suppose.

Posted: **Sat Jul 20, 2013 12:08 pm**

I see nothing wrong with men having something exclusive. Perhaps the women should strart up their own club

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:30 pm**

Scooter wrote:No one said anything about men and women competing together. Try to follow the plot.

Try to follow the plot yerself. Sport.

You cannot claim a justification for difference only when it suits you.

yrs,
rubato

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:33 pm**

I am speaking to the issue raised in the OP, which has nothing to do with whatever you are nattering about.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2013 7:46 pm**

Scooter wrote:I am speaking to the issue raised in the OP, which has nothing to do with whatever you are nattering about.

So no cogent reason that Male-only voluntary associations should be against the law but that sports should allow for segregation by sex. Not an impressive response.

yrs,
rubato

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2013 8:01 pm**

What I said was:

Scooter wrote:If there is some rational basis for maintaining a same-sex environment, that can be justifiable.

Segregation by sex in competitive sport is one of those areas where there is a rational basis for maintaining a same-sex environment. Segregating by sex so that men can play golf with each other without the presence of women on the same course is not. Whether you choose to acknowledge the distinction is beyond my control. And I'm already bored by trying to explain it to you.

Posted: **Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:17 pm**

We have exercise facilities here which exclude men, because some women want to exercise without the presence of men. Why are men not afforded the same alternative?

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