MajGenl.Meade wrote:Quite amusing. Of course he wasn't asking me to clarify the record - but to give my opinion about the record which is a different fettle of kish.
CP I'm interested in that "bad end". Jonathan, as do we all, kicked the bucket i.e. came to the same end. We do view shorter lives as somehow "less" in more than just time. But given an eternal perspective, why is that? Jonathan seems to have been a stand-up fellow and, as you say, made right choices - judging by his son's name and history, he would seem to be the sort who'd welcome the improvements post-earth. We (and I include myself) do appear to have a hard time acting as if we too would be pleased to pop our clogs and go to the better place. No one of course is in a rush to do that but you know what I mean?
It's not just that it was shorter that I call it a bad end. It was that he died supporting a cause that he didn't really see as right. He lived a life of divided loyaties doing as duty honor and faith dictated he must and died supporting them to the best of his abilities. Are there things to admire in that? Sure. But one is forced to wonder what could be if life was his own.
Hearafter aside one hopes their life here on earth amounts to something better than "coutionary tale" much less "someone unfortunately inextricably entangled in anothers cautionary tale".
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
One thing I have been told int he rooms is "do the next right thing". Growing up I was told "do unto others as you would have them do unto you". Seems like two "commandments" I can (and try) to live by. I'll never be perfect in doing either, but I am making progress.
Whether "Divine" or not, more should take up these two simple suggestions.
But hey, I'm just an alcoholic trying to make his way toward permanent sobriety.
CP, you're right about divided loyalties. But I'm not sure that Jonathan didn't see the cause he fought for as "right". He fought the Philistines and other enemies of Israel in order to preserve the country that he would (presumably) serve as king after Saul. Certainly, he was aware of Saul's personal failings and presumably of the growing distance between king and God. He did not want Saul to kill David and therefore opposed his father in that matter.
In what way was Jonathan's life not "his own"? I think that might be worth expanding if you like. (We might not want to go into whether or not any life is one's "own". God seems to have a different view as to whose it is).
About "cautionary tales". . . surely that's not the be-all and end-all of Jonathan's life? He positively contributed toward the advancement of the human story by preserving David's life; by acting like the sub-ruler that he was; by defending his country against hostile neighbours; by marrying, having children (or at least one) and being part of society, albeit more briefly than many would have liked - including Jonathan himself I guess.
If we are believers, then David's continued existence was more "significant" than that of Jonathan in the sense of his becoming king and a progenitor of Jesus. Jonathan's life and his part in all of it was equally important and worthy of a prince, I think.
Meade
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
Crackpot wrote:So after 20 years of Agnosticism I have come to the somewhat unhappy conclusion that I am indeed a Christian. I say unhappy because Agnosticism has the major boon of no one assuming to know exactly what it is you believe or have any pre-conceived notions of what those beliefs mean.
I am happy to report that it seems that I may have even found a Church that suits my beliefs enough that I'm actually considering joining. What can I say Actually going so far as to put a statement opposing gossip and other general judgmental activities goes a long way. For the first time in a while I think there may be a religious institution for me.
That being said I hope to use this tread for the occasional short essay, "Bible study" what have you that make believers and unbelievers alike (I tell you I still have an aversion to this "religo-speak" but sometimes it can't be avoided) to think or will at least be somewhat entertaining.
Comments welcome.
First entry to follow.
If we had more Christians we would have fewer school shootings.
I expected to be placed in an air force combat position such as security police, forward air control, pararescue or E.O.D. I would have liked dog handler. I had heard about the dog Nemo and was highly impressed. “SFB” is sad I didn’t end up in E.O.D.
