oldr_n_wsr's alcoholic adventure

[Guinevere]

So sorry oldr. Suicide is incomprehensible, and a final act of utter selfishness. But that doesn't mean it doesn't hurt like a sonofabitch.

[Crackpot]

Spare the selfishness bullshit. That's just pablum to make those left behind feel better at the expense of the deceased. It's passive aggressive at best utterly dismissive of the pain and mental illness of the deceased at best.

Think if they were still alive:

Deceased: I can't take it anymore I think I'm going to end it.
You: Stop being selfish

Utterly callous

[Guinevere]

Judgmental a little, CP? The only passive-aggressive behavior, and utter callousness here, is in your post, not mine, and in your made up words -- which most definitely are not mine.

First of all, I have all sorts of empathy and understanding of and for the deceased and their mental illness/depression. I've dealt with it in my own family, I've struggled with my own personal demons, and I've dealt with it in friends. No one can know what any one individual is going through, and if you think you know it all, you're absolutely wrong.

As for those left behind, when have you sat with a friend and her four kids, trying to console them after her husband/their father shot himself in the head, weeks before the oldest graduated from high school? It's not something I'd wish on anyone. But do I believe that act of suicide is ultimately an act of selfishness? Yes, I do, and that's my fucking opinion, I don't give a goddamn whether you (or anyone else) agrees with me or not, and I can hold that opinion and also be empathetic at the same time.

[Crackpot]

What did I make up? The obvious exchange to show the callousness in the idea that suicide is selfish? Well duh. No one would say it since it is callous. You wouldn't say it when they were alive for the obvious e reasons why is it ok to say it when they are dead?

[oldr_n_wsr]

I have all sorts of empathy and understanding of and for the deceased and their mental illness/depression.

The biggest unknown is there wasn't even a "hint" of any mental illness/instability/depression. Always had a smile, joked around, busted balls, the usual stuff. Even those closest to him are at a loss and are asking other groups members (he was a member of multiple groups) if they "saw" anything.
Guess you never know.

[Gob]

To hit a middle ground between C-P and Guin, each suicide is an individual act.

[Jarlaxle]

Do you know if he saw a doctor recently? Might he have been diagnosed with something terminal and horrible?

[dales]

I'll tell what is selfish about suicide.

You can't take it back.

I still miss you, Linda.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Do you know if he saw a doctor recently? Might he have been diagnosed with something terminal and horrible?

That thought did cross my mind. But given the amount of "mob types" at the wake last night I am entertaining the thought of some "legal" problems.

Sorry about Linda dales.

[dales]

She was one of a kind, oldr.

I don't dwell on her suicide, but what a fun person she was.

She had her reasons and many were beyond her control, she give up and tired of dealing with all of life's shiit.

I don't hold it against here for a moment an look forward to seeing her in heaven.

(etoh or drugs did NOT contribute to her demise)

[oldr_n_wsr]

Good memories keep people in our hearts.
Good on you to hold them dear dales.

I remember some of Sal's stories. Wish I had known him better and had heard more of his stories. He met many famous people while bertending at the Waldorf (Sinatra and crew, Paul Mc. etc). Had a few "mob" associates too. He rarely told those stories.
He will be missed.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Got a speaking commitment tonight. I have to speak about Step 1.
We admitted we were powerless over alcohol-that our lives had become unmanageable.
Took me a while to get this step. (took me a while to get the first 3 steps).

[oldr_n_wsr]

All went well on the speaking engagment.
I was trying to get together with my sponsor this weekend (summer weekends are booked solid) to do step 5 but his sons girlfriend died in a car accident on thursday and his son (also an alcholic/addict) is dealing with it the wrong way. Plus my sponsors granddaughter has had medical problems since she was born (she's only 3yo) and was back in the hospital. So I told him to concentrate on his family, I can wait.
only problem with witing is my list keeps getting longer

[oldr_n_wsr]

My dad's in the hospital. they think he had a minor heart attack and they are talking about putting in a pacemaker. He was out of breath and not feeling well and called his neighbor who took him to the Wayne County medical center. They sent him to the Scranton hospital as WCMC is not equipped to do these procedures. My brother was planing on going up there this weekend so he's on his way up there (with my aunt whos a retired RN) and my sister went to Scranton hospital last night. I'm awaiting word.

Seems a little reality check for me. All this time I thought my father was defying old age (and winning). At 81 he still rode his harley and snowmobiled and choppped/split wood walked a few miles in the woods, etc.

Last time we were up there he didn't "look right" but I figured he was just not doing his usual routine (walking, working around hte house etc) and it turns out he wasn't. He didn't feel up to it which should have been a "warning sign" that he should go get checked out. But of course he didn't tell us this until he landed in the hospital yesterday.

Nothing to drink over (the obsession is gone and staying away, hopefully). Just concerned.

[Crackpot]

Nothing to drink over (the obsession is gone and staying away, hopefully). Just concerned.

Funny how that happens. I was just listening to a half hour long Chesterfield commercial disguised as an episode of Dragnet (I listen to old radio shows at work) and despite the wall to wall smoking references which a one time would have had me running for a smoke it wasn't until the end of the episode that I noticed that I didn't notice.

Still I know I can never go back.

Well wishes for your dad

[oldr_n_wsr]

thanks
He got the pacemaker put in already and he may go home today. 24hours.
Amazing.
If he starts feeling better, I wouldn't bet against him riding his mc over the weekend.

[Gob]

Best of luck to your dad O-n-W, hope he's back to being up and at 'em soon.

[Gob]

Just to add a personal note to this thread. I decided to have 2 months of total abstinence from alcohol in the run up to our next UK jaunt. I'm now in the fifth week of nine, (I cocked my dates up, and added an extra week in.)

I'm actually enjoying it, though I do have the prospect of my first pint, after 9 weeks off, being one of good Welsh ale, to look forward to, which helps enormously.

My sleep is so much better, I've gained weight, and my liver and kidneys are in far better condition to survive drinking with the Welsh crew.

I may have a glass of champagne on Hen's Birthday, which is on the weekend we leave, but I'm not counting that. Four weeks this coming Tuesday, I should be sitting, here, in my old local pub to sup.

[oldr_n_wsr]

You don't have obsession Gob. If you did, you couldn't go 5 hours.
Been doing my step work. Did, redid, edited, rewrote, amended my step 4 work. Then I went to a step meeting about step 4 (actually it was 3 meetings that covered step 4) and I tore up my work and started over. Been trying to get together with my sponsor to do step 5 but lofe has gotten in the way. Every time I'm freed up he isn't and visa versa. No big deal. Can't get together this weekend either as I am dog sitting on saturday. Normally would not bee that big a deal but these are my buddies champion field trial golden retrievers. Very well behaved dogs but for some reason they do not listen to females (or at least they don't listen to my wife nor his wife). I had no trouble with them. But they are very energetic and could clear my 4 foot high fence in a single bound so I need to be there. They get along great with my dog (maybe they will teach him a few things)

Then on sunday I have to go up to the lake house and bring my aunt home. She's been up there taking care of dad. So it's drive the 170 miles up, take a nap then drive back home.

Anyway, all is good. Coming up on 5 months sober, the obsession to drink has stayed away.

Went to a new meeting last night and I was ready to scream by the end of it. It was a step meeting and they were going over step 12. I figured it would be good for me as sooner or later I will get to step 12 and any info/insight helps me stay sober.

So they go around and read step 12 and the speaker starts sharing about her experience with step 12 and then goes into this long monolog about her day and how it sucked and how she didn't trat her kids right blah blah blah. Then the people that speak do nothing but complain about their day/week/month and how they didn't drink over their situation. Which is well and good but your own situation is not what causes us alcoholics to drink. We drink if we are having a good day. We drink if we are having a bad day. We drink if our wife is great, we drink if our wife hates us. We drink if we have a great job and money coming in and we drink if we have no job and no money. Our situations are not a prerequisite if we are going to drink or not.

Too many meetings are "therapy sessions". If you want/need therapy, go see a therapist. I am at the meetings to here solutions. I am there to hear how others have gotten and have stayed sober. I am not there to hear about how your day sucked, how the cat peed on the rug or how your socks don't match.

Thanks for letting me get that off my chest in a place where I do not hinder someone trying to get/stay sober like tonights meeting. Tonight they will here me share how I got sober and how I am staying sober, not how good/bad my day/week/month/life went.

[Guinevere]

Glad your Dad is ok -- pacer surgery is pretty routine and the benefits from one are immense.

And well done on keeping up the hard work oldr. It's definitely not easy.