Myself I have no faith in my own ability to remain "saved" - my confidence is in God's ability (and promises) to keep me eternally saved.
this is not my understanding of salvation at all. Salvation isn't something that requires tending but a gift given freely to those that choose to accept it.
The only caveat I add is that we maintain the choice of returning (from our point of view) the gift given.
OK as to the first part not quoted.
Yes I wasn't thinking of God tending to my salvation so to speak so much as I was to His holding it firmly while I wobble all over the place.
Meade
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts
As I may ave mantioned I'm getting baptized in a few weeks and as part of the deal they want me to share my "testimony" on how a came to be saved.
since they wanted me to write it out and submit it so they'd have some sort of idea of what I'd be saying I thought I'd share it with you:
How to distill an over 20 year journey to my acceptance of Christ and desire to be Baptized? And in a few minutes no less? Tall order.
So I start at my beginning.
I was raised believing in God and Jesus I can’t recall a time when I that I didn’t know who they were and what they did for us. In the beginning I didn’t have reason to question my faith. However as time went on I began to notice a few incongruencies between what was taught and what was practiced. As time progressed I saw these problems expand for a person to persons to quite a few churches and finally system wide.
By the time of my Confirmation I was at a serious crisis of faith. I decided that I hadn’t ever really taken my religion seriously enough to make an informed decision, so, for once I would. Come time for my pre-confirmation confession I sat and took a fearless moral inventory. I was 13 you can draw your own conclusions. I walked into the confessional head held up high confident that my sins would be forgiven. Instead I sat in judgment and was deemed unworthy. Not in words mind you but the man could not hide his disgust. I walked out sat in the pew to perform my rather hefty penance, but, in truth I mourned my loss of faith. I completed my familial obligation to be confirmed but afterward outside of a wedding or a funeral I never stepped foot inside a church again.
In the following decade I settled into a comfortable agnosticism. Softening my edges from rabid anti-Christian (It didn’t take long to realize they we are guilty of the exact same crimes I was pissed at Christians for) to a General “Live and let live” “what ever floats your boat” agnosticism. I enjoyed religious debate and would get involved in many in the various web forums I participated in since in most cases it was just too touchy of a subject to handle face to face.
Then I had a dream.
Or was it dreams? I was tempted. Many times. When I refused to give in my guide revealed itself to be something I can only describe as pure evil. All other thought was eliminated by the terror I was witnessing. I awoke with a start laying on the couch Someone asked me why I put myself through all of this and that if I could just give them up he could take all of the pain away. I looked at the trophies I was surrounded by and replied “right or wrong these trophies are me and I will not give them up.” At that moment the evil revealed itself to me again and I awoke again with a start lying on my bed in absolute terror not only afraid that this evil was once again lurking in the shadows but also I had no idea if I had given the correct answer to the offer I had been presented. Was it that I was holding on to my sins or pride and that had damned me? Or did those trophies represent my essence or soul, which, in the very least kept me from being damned on the spot?
As you can imagine such a dream really messed with my head so I proceeded to tell just about anyone who would listen about it. Eventually my story and I made our way to a friend of mine who had been confirmed the same time as me. He let me know how he was going to a new church now and invited me to come along.
I told him my wedding and funeral policy. Not to be deterred he then invited me to the bible study class has had been holding and added that another agnostic friend of ours was also attending. Sufficiently satisfied that I wouldn’t be subjected to a cult-like indoctrination process I agreed to come. I was pleasantly surprised that I enjoyed it My questions were welcomed disagreements were respectfully debated and most surprising of all was my skepticism was even welcomed by many. So I kept returning learning and occasionally even adding fresh insight on some passages. I learned Christianity anew as a cohesive philosophy and even became a half decent Christian apologist a position that is often sadly lacking on internet forums. Still when it came to the question if I was a Christian I would look inward and say No. Attributing it to what I came to call my Stunning lack of faith.
Then one night last September while writing another apologist post to a web forum, I came to the somewhat unhappy realization that I really believed what I was writing. I say unhappy because at that point I realized just how easy it is to be an agnostic. There’s no preconceived notions of what you think believe or how you’re supposed to act. It is the one belief system you can claim and be free of others judgment. Yet I knew what I had to do. I finished my post and immediately started another one coming out Christian to all my Atheistic and Agnostic friends online.
It was also about that time that My wife and I started coming here. (I’m sure to much joy to Paul and Dan who had spent so many years trying to get me through that door.) And I was pleasantly surprised to find that it was just what I was looking for in a church.
A few weeks ago during service I was musing on if I could distill my story down two a one word question and answer. I thought about it my loss of faith, my lack of faith and when I looked inside I was pleasantly surprised to find my faith has returned.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
CP, you have arrived at your believe after thought and debate, and not just because your parents said so or you went to a Billy Graham meet. I salute you.
If a man speaks in the forest and there are no women around to hear is he still wrong?
I think most of us "un-saved" here who have known C-P for some time, respect and admire his journey into faith.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
I'm sure god still loves you, despite your Robbie the Robot recital, mate.
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”
The hardest part about being a Christian apologist?
Having to deal with those who either claim to be on your "team" or to speak for your team and watching them steer their arguments straight into brick walls. It's not that they're necessarily wrong (their hearts may be in the right place) it's that they still keep marching into that same brick wall even though they know they've took that path before but somehow expect that wall has just up and disappeared.
I mean I can deal with and understand those that don't share my beliefs but jut how do you tell those that are "on your side" that they're not helping and that their theology is unstable at best?
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.
I mean I can deal with and understand those that don't share my beliefs but jut how do you tell those that are "on your side" that they're not helping and that their theology is unstable at best?
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Matthew 7:21
I guess somebody is gonna be wrong...
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
I guess there isn't only one way to be right ....
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
I guess there isn't only one way to be right ....
Nope.
1 Fold 1 Shepherd...
Sometimes it seems as though one has to cross the line just to figger out where it is
