Crackpot religious ideas

[Crackpot]

So after 20 years of Agnosticism I have come to the somewhat unhappy conclusion that I am indeed a Christian. I say unhappy because Agnosticism has the major boon of no one assuming to know exactly what it is you believe or have any pre-conceived notions of what those beliefs mean.

I am happy to report that it seems that I may have even found a Church that suits my beliefs enough that I'm actually considering joining. What can I say Actually going so far as to put a statement opposing gossip and other general judgmental activities goes a long way. For the first time in a while I think there may be a religious institution for me.

That being said I hope to use this tread for the occasional short essay, "Bible study" what have you that make believers and unbelievers alike (I tell you I still have an aversion to this "religo-speak" but sometimes it can't be avoided) to think or will at least be somewhat entertaining.

Comments welcome.

First entry to follow.

[Crackpot]

I am frequently disturbed by the tendency of believers to elevate the Apostles to infallible status with their doctrine.

Peter in particular who frequently played Goofus to Jesus' Gallant, post Pentacost is often is treated as a near deity. I'm not saying he is undeserving of respect, just that I think it serves us all better to view him and other non-divine new testament figures as the humans that they are. Their humanity helps us all to be humble. The Biblical instances of their shortfalls remind us that following "the way" doesn't make us perfect.

Which leads us to this story from Acts 8:

Simon the Magician Believes

9But there was a man named Simon, who had previously practiced magic in the city and amazed the people of Samaria, saying that he himself was somebody great. 10They all paid attention to him, from the least to the greatest, saying, "This man is the power of God that is called Great." 11And they paid attention to him because for a long time he had amazed them with his magic. 12But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed.
14Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, 15who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit. 18Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money, 19saying, "Give me this power also, so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit." 20But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. 23For I see that you are in the gall[c] of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity." 24And Simon answered, "Pray for me to the Lord, that nothing of what you have said may come upon me.

(I've included the divinely inspired section title) (inside joke never mind)

It is often viewed that Simon was completely in the wrong here.

The problem that doesn't jive with mainline Protestant beliefs, or much of the other teachings of the Bible. What really seems to be happening is Peter completely overreacting due to a common misunderstanding on cultural grounds.

According to vs. 13 Simon believed and was baptized. Which means he was saved (salvation by grace through faith)

The problem is initiated at vs.18-19 and the cross cultural misunderstanding occurs:

Simon, Coming from a non-Jewish background and a sorcerers profession, offers to pay in exchange for the ability to bestow the Holy Spirit. He does this because of in the sorcerers profession you paid to learn your tricks. (much like magicians today) He thought he was following protocol.

Peter being a Jew sees God given gifts as that and something that can not be bought.

It is not hard to see why Peter took offense. But he errs majorly by implying that his error was so great that he may be unforgivable let alone that his rebuke seems to have the intent of driving him away from God.

Simon responds with humility toward Peter (perhaps undeservedly) and God further illustrating that the bulk of Peters rebuke was unnecessary and wrong.

[@meric@nwom@n]

HA! I am just the opposite. After 49 years or so of being a Christian I have come to the conclusion that there is no personal God, not one who answers prayers anyway. I don't know if that it is the right terminology but I have come to call myself a theistic agnostic, meaning I believe in a higher power that created this planet but who gave us free will and took off on other adventures.

I blame this change on watching too many folks go through hell with disease or defects stemming from birth. After watching the suffering of children who could not possibly have offended anyone or any God as they have had no time to do so I came to realize that there was nothing out there overseeing things. It is nature and shit just happens.

[oldr_n_wsr]

I have come to the conclusion that we are nothing more than a lab experiment which has been placed on a shelf and forgotten about.

[Gob]

When god stops acting so human, being childish and stupid, and actually does something of recognisable god like dimensions then I'll start believing.

[Timster]

When god stops acting so human, being childish and stupid, and actually does something of recognisable god like dimensions then I'll start believing.

This is exactly the problem that a lot of folks have Gob.

They try to 'humanize' God and make sense out of senselessness. Man's inhumanity to man and all of that rot.

Basically they try to bring God down to OUR level and project our own weaknesses unto Him. Again. Not much of a God then.

What would you have God do, Gob? Be specific. And be careful what you wish for. . .

[Timster]

I like the premise of this thread CP. And I will contribute as time permits.

However, some folks don't even know what they believe. They think they do, but often they do not understand the very terms that you mentioned above.

So to clarify and to place this discussion on an even footing; Let's address some terms.

http://hotword.dictionary.com/atheism-agnosticism/

And build upon that...


PS: Good ruck on new job oppwaturnity.

[Gob]

What would you have God do, Gob? Be specific. And be careful what you wish for. . .

Set out in clear and unequivical form that is understood internationally, in all languages and cultures, what he/she/it expects of us.

[Timster]

AHHHHHh SOOOO~ Faith is out the window... LMFCO!!!

[Crackpot]

What would you have God do, Gob? Be specific. And be careful what you wish for. . .

Set out in clear and unequivical form that is understood internationally, in all languages and cultures, what he/she/it expects of us.

short response:

You underestimate mans ability to mess up directions especially if it affords one the ability to feel superior to another.

[Gob]

It should not be beyond the ken of a dieity, worthy of the name, to make this clear and unequivocal.

[Crackpot]

Beyond it? no. But I suspect doing so would negate the purpose of our existence.

Why do you say that?

[Gob]

Because any creature capable of creating the universe, earth and all on it, should not have any problem laying out a set of rules for humans to follow.

[Crackpot]

It's been done. Multiple times if you believe the Bible. It's humans ability to follow said instructions that's been the problem.

[Crackpot]

Heck, at this point the bar is set so unbelievably low that people think "it can't be that easy. Let's make it harder."

[Gob]

It's been done. Multiple times if you believe the Bible. It's humans ability to follow said instructions that's been the problem.

Then the instructions have not been set out; "in clear and unequivical form that is understood internationally, in all languages and cultures, what he/she/it expects of us."

unequivocal
adjective
1. not equivocal; unambiguous; clear; having only one possible meaning or interpretation: an unequivocal indication of assent; unequivocal proof.
2. absolute; unqualified; not subject to conditions or exceptions: The cosigner of a note gives unequivocal assurance that it will be paid when due.

The problem is that the rules of the god of the bible have been set out badly, by man, not by a deity.

No deity worth the name would come up with the bunch of crap that is the bible, and expect anyone to live their lives by it.

[loCAtek]

Roger that, by man not God.



So follow God, not man.



Juss sayin'

[dales]

I'm delighted that you have found a church that fits right for you, C/P.

Follow Jesus and NOT man as Loca said and you'll be all right in the end.

[dales]

Heck, at this point the bar is set so unbelievably low that people think "it can't be that easy. Let's make it harder."

Yes, that is quite true.

All the "work" that is needed has been done at the cross, man likes to add things.

Ignore it, Jesus paid for my sins and no matter what I do I am unable to "clean myself up" any better than that.

You'll never find the "perfect church" after all, church is a hospital for sinners and not a museum for saints.

[loCAtek]

The truest words heard in church:

Peace be unto you.