oldr_n_wsr's alcoholic adventure

[datsunaholic]

Well, I destroyed a friendship today.

Everyone that said I should have backed off, let it go. You were right.

I have never felt this ill. I betrayed someone by snooping into their private files while cleaning malware off their computer. I didn't get caught, I couldn't live with the guilt so I told her.

Two days later I had the audacity to lecture her on her life choices when I found out she was sneaking around smoking cigarettes and doing a lousy job hiding it from her father (he found Newport cigarette butts all over the yard, a pack of Newports in her wide-open purse, and a pack of camels left obviously on her dresser. He saw her hiding in the bushes outside the shop and tossed something when he came out, and I saw the same thing last week). This girl was the cleanest, health conscious person I knew a year ago. She's been lashing out at everyone for not supporting her choices, and I said that no one is going to support her on the road to ruin.

The response I got- which ended with "never contact me again" (which is going to be freaking hard since we crew on the same race team) I deserved. What was my right to lecture her on her lifestyle choices when I can't even control my own inappropriate desires?

I am feeling sick to my stomach. This is an emotion I have never felt. Sadness I can take. This is ulcer-forming guilt. I have to face our peers tomorrow on shop night. I'm glad I don't drink, because if I did I'd be deep in a bottle right now. If I could keep anything down, that is.

[RayThom]

Well, I destroyed a friendship today... Two days later I had the audacity to lecture her on her life choices when I found out she was sneaking around smoking cigarettes and doing a lousy job hiding it from her father (he found Newport cigarette butts all over the yard, a pack of Newports in her wide-open purse, and a pack of Camels left obviously on her dresser.

He saw her hiding in the bushes outside the shop and tossed something when he came out, and I saw the same thing last week). This girl was the cleanest, health conscious person I knew a year ago. She's been lashing out at everyone for not supporting her choices, and I said that no one is going to support her on the road to ruin....

dats, I'm curious. How old is this young lady -- under 18? If she's over 18 she's an adult and I'd say it's pretty much a moot point. How much control do people around her need to exercise on her?

Hey, we all know smoking is a stupid habit but that's her choice and she accepts the consequences. If you're sick about what has transpired revisit it in a few weeks or a month. I can't see how this could have driven a wedge so large that it can't be fixed... unless there is more to it. Mental instability issues, maybe?

Regardless, that's life... move on. Don't create more problems for yourself.

[Joe Guy]

If she was a real friend, after time passes she will forgive you. Anything else that's going on with you and her is probably not something I know enough about to comment on.

[datsunaholic]

She's 22.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Not to be too Step-enthusiastic about this but

Step 10-Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it

You admitted you were wrong,

I couldn't live with the guilt so I told her.

At that point you should have apologized and left it there.
But you had to go on and take her inventory and tell her how she "should" live. But at least you realized:

What was my right to lecture her on her lifestyle choices when I can't even control my own inappropriate desires?

You need to tell her that and apologize for it. Then leave it/her alone. You can only take care of your side of the street. (how I hate the cliches )
How she responds is not on you. You do your part and her part (accepting or not accepting your apology) is hers.

[datsunaholic]

At this point I think everyone is in agreement that distancing myself is the only option. Just wish I could get it out of my head. I've tried a lot, and can't concentrate. Tried reading, can't concentrate. Even watching TV, it's still there. Spilled it all at my Counseling session, which included a lecture on how what I did could be considered criminal with sexual intent. That scared the hell out of me, actually. My new counselor talked about the 12 step program. He is a recovering porn and sex addict, and also a former Navy sailor. I'm a bit concerned about the similarities, actually, but shall see how it goes.

[RayThom]

At this point I think everyone is in agreement that distancing myself is the only option. Just wish I could get it out of my head. I've tried a lot, and can't concentrate. Tried reading, can't concentrate. Even watching TV, it's still there. Spilled it all at my Counseling session, which included a lecture on how what I did could be considered criminal with sexual intent. That scared the hell out of me, actually. My new counselor talked about the 12 step program. He is a recovering porn and sex addict, and also a former Navy sailor. I'm a bit concerned about the similarities, actually, but shall see how it goes.

dats, I know you'd be risking national exposure but this is precisely the type of story that Dr. Phil likes to deal with. A few minutes of possible embarrassment on TV will get you months of free rehab and treatments if Phil thinks your case contains a teachable moment or two. It may be worth considering.

[datsunaholic]

dats, I know you'd be risking national exposure but this is precisely the type of story that Dr. Phil likes to deal with. A few minutes of possible embarrassment on TV will get you months of free rehab and treatments if Phil thinks your case contains a teachable moment or two. It may be worth considering.

Tempting if it didn't involve another person.

My sister told me something yesterday- I put women on pedestals. I have this idealistic image of someone. This girl, other than being far, far too young, was almost the spitting image of my dream girl, physically and personality-wise. Therein lies the problem- I was in love with who she was, but not who she is now. So there is a deep sense of loss, both because of my actions, but also because who she was was is gone, replaced with someone completely different. That's actually not true- there are bits and pieces of her old self still there, because people don't entirely change. The change is so drastic, though.

[oldr_n_wsr]

My new counselor talked about the 12 step program. He is a recovering porn and sex addict, and also a former Navy sailor. I'm a bit concerned about the similarities, actually, but shall see how it goes.

Being a very satisfied customer of the 12 step program, I recommend it, keeping in mind it is not the only "game" in town. Raythom recovered from alcoholism without a 12 step program however, I could not.

From the forward to the first edition (of the Big book of AA)
"...we are sure that our way of living has it's advantages for all."

What have you got to lose by giving it a shot?

[RayThom]

Et seq.-- dats, if you don't surrender to an external therapy program you'll need to stay occupied. I went back to school, and got involved with the theater arts. I had little time to dwell on my illness and prior missteps and misdeeds. There's a whole world of new friends out there with more in common with your skill sets.

One absolute to remember -- complacency will smother your soul. I wish you the best.

[datsunaholic]

Well, as I've mentioned before I've been working with a counselor but now I have a new one. Plus I've started a part-time job. The bad part is, I'm working all alone in a warehouse with nothing but my inner thoughts to keep me company. I have my music running, but it's not enough. I'm cataloging artifacts, which is not particularly mind-occupying.

Plus I keep getting one hit after another. It's been a week since the whole thing blew up, but today she started blocking me from her social media accounts and probably blocked my number.

To make matters worse we are (supposed) to be going to a concert in June, we all already got our tickets. Nothing is being said about that, because nothing is being said at all.

[BoSoxGal]

Beyond the fact of the 20-something year age gap, neither you nor this girl are in a good space to be in a relationship, much less with each other. You've done what you've done, it was a massive invasion of privacy and betrayal of friendship, I think you're best focused now on why you did what you did and dealing with your own demons than focusing on her. You might consider sending her your ticket - or both, if you bought both - along with a brief note reiterating your sincere apology and best wishes and encouraging her to enjoy the concert with a friend or date of her choice. Beyond that, respect her desire for no contact. If not, you are wandering into creepy stalker territory, not to mention the legal implications if she chooses to report unwanted contact.

Work on you, datsun. Romance, or real friendship, with a woman of ANY age won't be successful unless/until you do.

[datsunaholic]

Thank you, BSG, I needed someone to say that. I was denying that I was overinvolved, and I've been acting stalkerish. Distance is what I need to force myself to do.

[Guinevere]

dats, I know you'd be risking national exposure but this is precisely the type of story that Dr. Phil likes to deal with. A few minutes of possible embarrassment on TV will get you months of free rehab and treatments if Phil thinks your case contains a teachable moment or two. It may be worth considering.

Tempting if it didn't involve another person.

My sister told me something yesterday- I put women on pedestals. I have this idealistic image of someone. This girl, other than being far, far too young, was almost the spitting image of my dream girl, physically and personality-wise. Therein lies the problem- I was in love with who she was, but not who she is now. So there is a deep sense of loss, both because of my actions, but also because who she was was is gone, replaced with someone completely different. That's actually not true- there are bits and pieces of her old self still there, because people don't entirely change. The change is so drastic, though.

Actually, I think you were in love with who you wanted her to be, not who she actually was. And people don't change - its that we can willingly deceive ourselves to believing they are different than they truly are.

Once you learn to love and accept yourself, and who you truly are, you will be able to see (and love) others more clearly. Keep up the good but hard work, you're making progress!

[BoSoxGal]

Thank you, BSG, I needed someone to say that. I was denying that I was overinvolved, and I've been acting stalkerish. Distance is what I need to force myself to do.

You're welcome and I hope it didn't sound too harsh, just trying to get real with you as we all need friends to do sometimes.

Don't despair about your friend, it's more likely than not that you will reconcile to friendship in future - but I can promise it won't happen unless you first give her time and space to be upset and then to forgive, on her own terms. So that gives you time to keep focused on your own healing journey . . .

[Crackpot]

Are type "A" personalities becoming extinct? There seems to be a lack of people who want to step up and organize things even if it means they can annoy the rest of us.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Yet another empty chair at the meeting last night. The kid od'd on saturday and died sunday morning.

Too many times I hear, "I've got this" or "I know what I have to do".
Too may talk but don't do. It takes work but the rewards are great.
Number one is life.
Number two is peace.
Number three is serenity.
Sometimes I just want to smack some of these people, but then I realise I was in their place not too long ago and I was not "doing" the program either. So I just keep my hand out and help anyone who asks.

and on that note, I have been working with a protege for the last month and he is making progress. Didn't want to say anything about working with another alcoholic (didn't even tell my sponser yet) as any previous person who asked me to help them didn't stick around for more than a week. This guy seems eager to do the work and we have met least once a week for an hour or two to work on his recovery (and my recovery too, as helping him helps me stay sober).

[Long Run]

Are type "A" personalities becoming extinct?

Actually, there are more type "A" personalities than ever, but I think it is just grade inflation.

[Gob]

and on that note, I have been working with a protege for the last month and he is making progress. Didn't want to say anything about working with another alcoholic (didn't even tell my sponser yet) as any previous person who asked me to help them didn't stick around for more than a week. This guy seems eager to do the work and we have met least once a week for an hour or two to work on his recovery (and my recovery too, as helping him helps me stay sober).

Respect for that mate.

[Lord Jim]

Are type "A" personalities becoming extinct?

Not while I live...