When I was a young lad living in a near-snow-belt climate, we lower-middle class sorts used to drive used Chevy and Ford sedans, mainly of the 6-cylinder, automatic variety. These cars were front-heavy and had rear wheel drive, with a differential that perversely directed the engine’s power to the rear wheel with the least resistance. It didn’t matter much on dry or even wet pavement, but in Winter conditions you would occasionally find yourself with one rear wheel on dry pavement, the other rear wheel spinning futilely on a patch of ice, and you sat there frustrated, going nowhere. And if your car had cheap, bald, bias-ply tires on it, that didn’t help either. So if you were prudent and financially able, you would ensure that you had decent snow tires on your car, you would plan your routes to avoid unnecessary hills and unplowed streets, drive cautiously, and live with the fact that oftentimes you would step on either the gas or the brake and not get the immediate desired effect, due to a lack of traction. In short, you were careful when the road conditions warranted it. And we survived and got where we had to go in the Winter. I never remember actually missing an event because the car wouldn’t get me there due to inability to go in the snow and ice. (But then again, I was able to walk most places, so maybe that was part of it).
In the mid-60’s, the car manufacturers tried to improve the traction situation with the invention of the limited-slip differential (an optional feature on some cars, standard on very few), which was supposed to transfer the engine’s power to the rear wheel with the greater resistance. In my experience it didn’t work very well, and I understand from mechanics that it didn’t work very long either – becoming ineffective after about 20,000 miles. But in theory it was a cool thing that helped you get around in Winter, especially if you had a car with a V8 engine and some torque to contend with.
Radial-ply tires (as opposed to bias-ply tires) were another big help in snow and icy conditions. I don’t recall exactly when they became available, but I do remember getting them installed on my Gremlin in about 1975, and being very pleased with the improvement in ride, handling, and traction. Radials have a larger contact patch (at least in theory), and hold the road a little better.
But in the early 80’s the American car manufacturers actually solved the traction problems for most drivers when they started making most of their small and mid-sized cars with front-wheel drive (FWD); eventually even most of the big cars were powered this way. FWD placed the engine over the drive wheels (wheel, to be more precise), which improved traction dramatically. In those first years with our Chevy Citations and whatnot, we thought we were in Winter-heaven. We could get around in conditions that would have been very problematic just a few years earlier. There was no longer any need to route around hills, or to avoid streets that had not been plowed. And we could even substitute all-season tires for the snowtires of yore, thus saving on cost and aggravation. You still had to use a little common sense when driving on snow and ice, but it was a whole new ballgame, traction-wise. To this day, most of the people who have problems getting around in snow with FWD cars are simply riding on Summer or near-Summer tread tires and are expecting the impossible.
Many people of the female variety in this climate (including my wife) have actually gotten to the point where they wouldn’t dream of owning a car that wasn’t FWD, for fear they will get stuck someplace in a snow drift.
Parenthetically, I will say that the cognoscenti – police, cab drivers, professional drivers, driving “enthusiasts” – have never actually warmed up to FWD. The handling of those early FWD cars was just horrible, and when rounding a bend at any speed, they gave you the sensation that your outside front wheel was about to fold under the car and leave you sliding into a ditch. To this day, there are VERY FEW serious performance cars that are FWD. (My vote for the sportiest FWD car of all time is the Mitsubishi 3000GT). The latest FWD “sporty” cars (e.g., Mazdaspeed 3, Golf GTI) have good handling, relatively speaking, but there can be no doubt that RWD provides best handling on dry pavement.
Then came the SUV explosion. These bigger, heavier vehicles came with either 4-wheel-drive or all-wheel-drive, and theoretically speaking, traction was no longer an issue or a concern. With 4WD and a good set of tires, you can basically go anywhere that the snowplow goes – before the snowplow even gets there. The downsides of 4WD are fairly significant, but not related to traction or safety. The mechanical parts that go into the 4WD system are heavy, and in increasing a car’s weight, they make it slower, less economical, less nimble, and marginally harder to stop. But in climates where Winter driving conditions are a real concern, people are willing to live with these downsides in exchange for superior traction in the worst driving conditions. (Why anyone in the Sun Belt would have a 4WD car – or any SUV - eludes me).
The only real problems with 4WD/AWD are the result of the stupidity of the people behind the wheel. Many of them think that because they have 4WD/AWD, they can ride around all year on summer tires. Summer tires are quieter, have less rolling resistance, and arguably contribute to better gas mileage, but they severely compromise the Winter traction of the car. As one of the first people leaving my hilly subdivision on snowy mornings, I regularly see Jeeps and similar SUV’s having a hell of a time negotiating the hills because they have summer tires on them. These are the same hills I had no problem negotiating with my RWD Chevy S-10 pickup, because I had good, radial-ply snow tires and a hundred pounds of rocksalt in the bed for ballast.
The other problem with the drivers of 4WD/AWD vehicles is that they assume that just because they can GO better than other vehicles in the snow, they can also STOP and TURN better than other vehicles in the snow. And that is simply not true. After every major snowfall around here, there is invariably a 4WD “monster” pickup truck stranded in the median because it spun out in the passing lane at 70mph. Fuckin’ idjit.
The computer weenies of the auto world have also developed “all-speed traction control,” and “anti-lock brakes,” which are mirror image techno-miracles that electronically ensure that all wheels of the vehicle are turning at approximately the same speed, thus maximizing traction. But again, these technologies cannot overturn the laws of physics, and there are limits to how quickly a 2-ton object can accelerate, turn, or stop on snow or ice. One could fund a pretty sizable trust with a dollar from every idiot who ran into the back of another car because “the anti-lock brakes failed.”
“No, asshole, you were just going too fast for the conditions.”
The circumstances of my life require that I have a vehicle that is completely reliable under all driving conditions, and won’t get stuck in the snow except in the most extreme circumstances. My preferred vehicles are RWD, with a stick shift and traction control, and I’m willing to spend the extra money and time to see that they have four (4) good snowtreads during the Winter driving months. My RWD S-10 did not have traction control and had an automatic transmission, but I made it through three Winters without any issues, often passing stranded SUV’s along my way.
Those who live in this climate know that the occasional snow and ice storm are merely the second-most troublesome aspect of Winter driving, with stupid drivers being Number One, by far. Virtually every time I find myself sitting in a long lineup of stopped cars on a snowy road, it is the result of someone doing something incredibly stupid behind the wheel. Maybe going too fast, maybe going too slow, and maybe trying something they oughtn’t under poor conditions. Parents who teach their kids to drive in this climate and neglect to cover driving in snow and ice are doing their kids (and everyone else) a great disservice. My theory is that the parents believe that by getting their kids a FWD car or a small SUV, they are covering all the bases, but this has resulted in a whole generation of people who don’t know how to drive sanely under poor Winter conditions. It’s a pity.
Traction
Re: Traction
The thing with snow tires is that they really don't have an added cost. You're going to use the same amount of tire up based on how far you drive; putting winter tires on prolongs the life of your normal tires and vice versa. There is a cost to have them changed out if the snow tires aren't on their own rims.
I recall Datsun having an early front wheel drive coupe in the early to mid -70s that was popular for those living in the snow, and then shortly thereafter the first of the Subaru wagons hit the market.
Road problems are like any other problems -- it is usually some small minority of the population that causes the problems for everyone.
I recall Datsun having an early front wheel drive coupe in the early to mid -70s that was popular for those living in the snow, and then shortly thereafter the first of the Subaru wagons hit the market.
Road problems are like any other problems -- it is usually some small minority of the population that causes the problems for everyone.
Re: Traction
My biggest issue with snow tires is the space they take in my garage. I just bought four snows with wheels from Tirerack for my new-used PTCruiser, and I actually built a TIRE RACK that hangs from the ceiling of the garage. Four Blizzaks and FWD, and I figure there are not many places I can't get to, regardless of the weather.
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Re: Traction
When I was teaching my kids to drive, after the first (and any) snowfall, we went to the Ronkonkoma train station and I taught them driving on snow (and ice if we found it). How the car handles, how it stops, how to go to higher snow for a faster stop or just to get traction when the ruts from previous vehicles have made the lane a sheet of ice. I also let/taught them do 180's and have some fun (although with FWD it means pulling the emergency brake and turning hard).Parents who teach their kids to drive in this climate and neglect to cover driving in snow and ice are doing their kids (and everyone else) a great disservice.
Back when, I had a 72 dodge dart with the 225 slant six. Even without snow tires nor extra weight in teh trunk, I rarely had trouble in the snow. Being underpowered kept the rear wheel(s) from spinning and all one really had to do was go easy on teh gas and leave room in front.
I have a 2002 PT Cruiser (limited edition) and the only problem I have found with it and snow is ground clearance.I just bought four snows with wheels from Tirerack for my new-used PTCruiser,
Re: Traction
Traction, anyone?

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.
yrs,
rubato
Re: Traction
I can typing!!!! 

Re: Traction
They don't last as long as all-seasons...they are made from softer rubber and wear more quickly. And they are NOT cheap...four snows for my Magnum cost me damn near $650 (and they were on sale), and that was 5 years ago!Long Run wrote:The thing with snow tires is that they really don't have an added cost. You're going to use the same amount of tire up based on how far you drive; putting winter tires on prolongs the life of your normal tires and vice versa. There is a cost to have them changed out if the snow tires aren't on their own rims.
Treat Gaza like Carthage.