Minimum Wage - a True Litmus Test

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Scooter
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 6:04 pm
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: Minimum Wage - a True Litmus Test

Post by Scooter »

The fallacy underlying your question is that, absent a minimum wage, the wages paid by employers actually represent the "economic value" of the work received. Since it is usually true that employers have greater bargaining power than employees, they are in those circumstances able to drive wages below the "economic value" of the work being provided for them.
"Hang on while I log in to the James Webb telescope to search the known universe for who the fuck asked you." -- James Fell

Andrew D
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Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:01 pm
Location: North California

Re: Minimum Wage - a True Litmus Test

Post by Andrew D »

... the conventional wisdom and common sense that increasing the cost of labor reduces the amount of labor purchased in the market place.
As is all too often the case, the "conventional wisdom" is neither conventional nor wise, and the "common sense" is neither common nor sensical.

But don't take my word for it. Ask these people:

Kenneth Arrow, Nobel Laureate, Stanford University
Clive Granger, Nobel Laureate, University of California, San Diego
Lawrence Klein, Nobel Laureate, University of Pennsylvania
Robert Solow, Nobel Laureate, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Joseph Stiglitz, Nobel Laureate, Columbia University

Henry Aaron, The Brookings Institution
William Baumol, Princeton University and New York University
Rebecca Blank, University of Michigan
Alan Blinder, Princeton University
Peter Diamond, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Ronald Ehrenberg, Cornell University
Lawrence Katz, Harvard University (AEA Executive Committee)
Frank Levy, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Lawrence Mishel, Economic Policy Institute
Alice Rivlin,The Brookings Institution (former Vice Chair of the Federal Reserve and Director of the Office of Management and Budget)
Katherine G. Abraham, University of Maryland
Frank Ackerman, Tufts University
F. Gerard Adams, Northeastern University
Randy Albelda, University of Massachusetts – Boston
James Albrecht, Georgetown University
Jennifer Alix-Garcia, University of Montana
Sylvia A. Allegretto, Economic Policy Institute
Beth Almeida, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers
Abbas Alnasrawi, University of Vermont
Gar Alperovitz, University of Maryland - College Park
Joseph Altonji, Yale University
Nurul Aman, University of Massachusetts – Boston
Teresa L. Amott, Hobart and William Smith Colleges
Alice Amsden, Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Bernard E. Anderson, University of Pennsylvania
Robert M. Anderson, University of California – Berkeley
Bahreinian Aniss, California State University – Sacramento
Kate Antonovics, University of California - San Diego
Eileen Appelbaum, Rutgers University
David D. Arsen, Michigan State University
Michael Ash, University of Massachusetts – Amherst
Glen Atkinson, University of Nevada – Reno
Rose-Marie Avin, University of Wisconsin - Eau Claire
M.V. Lee Badgett, University of Massachusetts – Amherst
Aniss Bahreinian, Sacramento City College
Ron Baiman, Loyola University Chicago
Asatar Bair, City College of San Francisco
Katie Baird, University of Washington – Tacoma
Dean Baker, Center for Economic and Policy Research
Radhika Balakrishnan, Marymount Manhattan College
Stephen E. Baldwin, KRA Corporation
Erol Balkan, Hamilton College
Jennifer Ball, Washburn University
Brad Barham, University of Wisconsin – Madison
Drucilla K. Barker, Hollins College
David Barkin, Universidad Autonoma Metropolitana
James N. Baron, Yale University
Chuck Barone, Dickinson College
Christopher B. Barrett, Cornell University
Richard Barrett, University of Montana
Laurie J. Bassi, McBassi & Company
Francis M. Bator, Harvard University
Rosemary Batt, Cornell University
Sandy Baum, Skidmore College
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Sohrab Behdad, Denison University
Peter F. Bell, State University of New York – Purchase
Dale L. Belman, Michigan State University
Michael Belzer, Wayne State University
Lourdes Beneria, Cornell University
Barbara R. Bergmann, American University and University of Maryland
Eli Berman, University of California - San Diego
Alexandra Bernasek, Colorado State University
Jared Bernstein, Economic Policy Institute
Michael Bernstein, University of California - San Diego
Charles L. Betsey, Howard University
David M. Betson, University of Notre Dame
Carole Biewener, Simmons College
Sherrilyn Billger, Illinois State University
Richard E. Bilsborrow, University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
Cyrus Bina, University of Minnesota – Morris
Melissa Binder, University of New Mexico
L. Josh Bivens, Economic Policy Institute
Stanley Black, University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill
Ron Blackwell, AFL – CIO
Margaret Blair, Vanderbilt University Law School
Gail Blattenberger, University of Utah
Robert A. Blecker, American University
Barry Bluestone, Northeastern University
Peter Bohmer, Evergreen State College
David Boldt, State University of West Georgia
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James F. Booker, Siena College
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Barry Bosworth, The Brookings Institution
Heather Boushey, Center for Economic and Policy Research
Roger Even Bove, West Chester University
Samuel Bowles, Santa Fe Institute
James K. Boyce, University of Massachusetts – Amherst
Ralph Bradburd, Williams College
Michael E. Bradley, University of Maryland - Baltimore County
Elissa Braunstein, Colorado State University
David Breneman, University of Virginia
Mark Brenner, Labor Notes Magazine
Vernon M. Briggs, Cornell University
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Michael Brun, Illinois State University
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Stephen Buckles, Vanderbilt University
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Joyce Burnette, Wabash College
Paul D. Bush, California State University – Fresno
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Antonio G. Callari, Franklin and Marshall College
Al Campbell, University of Utah
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Maria Cancian, University of Wisconsin – Madison
Paul Cantor, Norwalk Community College
Anthony Carnevale, National Center on Education and the Economy
Jeffrey P. Carpenter, Middlebury College
Francoise Carre, University of Massachusetts – Boston
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Karl E. Case, Wellesley College
J. Dennis Chasse, State University of New York – Brockport
Howard Chernick, Hunter College, City University of New York
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Lawrence Chimerine, Radnor International Consulting, Inc.
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Anita Dancs, National Priorities Project
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Sheldon Danziger, University of Michigan - Ann Arbor
Jane D’Arista, Financial Markets Center
Paul Davidson, The New School for Social Research
Jayne Dean, Wagner College
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Ranjit S. Dighe, State University of New York – Oswego
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Randall Dodd, Financial Policy Forum
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Robert Drago, Pennsylvania State University
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Christopher Dunn, Earth and Its People Foundation
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Amitava K. Dutt, University of Notre Dame
Jan Dutta, Rutgers University
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Peter J. Eaton, University of Missouri - Kansas City
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Rashi Fein, Harvard Medical School
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Liana Fox, Economic Policy Institute
Donald G. Freeman, Sam Houston State University
Gerald Friedman, University of Massachusetts – Amherst
Sheldon Friedman, AFL – CIO
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Neil Gladstein, International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers
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Neva Goodwin, Tufts University
Roger Gordon, University of California - San Diego
Peter Gottschalk, Boston College
Elise Gould, Economic Policy Institute
Harvey Gram, Queens College, City University of New York
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Ulla Grapard, Colgate University
Daphne Greenwood, University of Colorado - Colorado Springs
Karl Gregory, Oakland University
Christopher Gunn, Hobart and William Smith Colleges
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Ajit Zacharias, Levy Economics Institute of Bard College
David A. Zalewski, Providence College
Henry W. Zaretsky, Henry W. Zaretsky & Associates, Inc.
Jim Zelenski, Regis University
Andrew Zimbalist, Smith College
John Zysman, University of California – Berkeley
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

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Econoline
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Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 6:25 pm
Location: DeKalb, Illinois...out amidst the corn, soybeans, and Republicans

Re: Minimum Wage - a True Litmus Test

Post by Econoline »

I assume you were answering Dave's question, Scooter, and I think you got it right. (And we both knew what he would say before he wrote it, didn't we? Some people are just sooooo predictable...)

As for the answer to my question (which was a political question, rather than an economics question): well, I'm still hoping that Lord Jim will weigh in, since I do respect his political acumen....but the answer seems to be that Republicans hate the very IDEA of the minimum wage so much, for ideological reasons, that they're still hoping against hope that they'll someday, someday, be able to get rid of the minimum wage entirely.

Ain't gonna happen, folks, not in this multiverse...and they would apparently rather keep backing a repeated political loser than admit it and make it go away as a political albatross for their party. Oh, well. Have fun.

I hate to admit it, but maybe rubato had the best answer? Maybe I'm not barking up the "rational" tree?
rubato wrote:
Econoline wrote:...

Given these 2 facts....can any GOP supporter here give me a rational reason for their party *NOT* supporting a proposal to index the minimum wage to the cost of living--thus eliminating a perennial political issue on which the Republicans *ALWAYS* lose?
:loon :shrug
You're not barking up the "rational" tree. But it is true that if their goals were actually those they espouse they would agree with the deal as a way of limiting the minimum wage to a perpetually low, albeit constant, level rather than risking a larger increase.
The Forbes article that Long Run linked to mentioned the term "zombie economics"...so would this be "zombie politics"?
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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