How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Act

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Econoline
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How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Act

Post by Econoline »

:ok This sounds like it could be a winning strategy for the Dems (for a change):
How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Act
December 3, 2013 | by David Akadjian

First, the bad news. Democrats will lose the Senate in 2014 if they can't figure out a strategy to support the Affordable Care Act.

Poll data backs this up and Democrats in competitive races like Mary Landrieu and Jeff Merkley look nervous. To mollify conservatives, they recently proposed a bill to let people keep their insurance plans for a year in response to Republican attack ads.

When has looking weak ever been good political strategy? They look primed for slaughter.

Now the good news. Republican strategy has never been more obvious: use the ACA as a wedge issue. Run this football up the middle until Democrats prove they can stop it.

Why is this good news? If Democrats can find a way to counter this single issue, the strategy falls apart. Unfortunately so far, their efforts haven't been very effective.

Democrats are fumbling by getting mired in technical fixes to a poorly designed website. Don't get me wrong, the website needs to be fixed but this isn't much of a political strategy. As soon as one issue gets fixed, Republicans will find another issue.

Another flawed aspect of Democratic strategy: Every liberal I know recognizes that the ACA is a conservative solution. Why beat our heads against a wall trying to convince conservatives that a conservative solution is right for the country despite their now stated opposition?

The White House's approach is slightly better. They want to focus on the economy. While I applaud this approach, Democrats still need an answer to health care because the media will drive the conversation; it is not going to simply avoid health care.

If we look at history, the answer is right in front of us.

There is one situation—and one situation only—in which Republicans support market-based health care reforms. It's happened at several points in our history, but the conditions are the same. Republicans support market-based reforms when government-based solutions are on the table.

When the late Senator Ted Kennedy chaired the Health subcommittee in the early 1970s, President Nixon introduced an early version of the ACA called the Comprehensive Health Insurance Plan (CHIP) that included an employer mandate and subsidies for low-income families.

In 1989, Stuart Butler of the conservative Heritage Foundation introduced the individual mandate, the basis for Romneycare and Obamacare. Butler described why it was introduced:
Increasingly, pressure is building for some kind of national health insurance system in America. I believe that eventually the U.S. will have a "national health system," in the sense of a system that assures each citizen of access to affordable health care. At issue is the kind of national system we should have.

It was created as an alternative to a government-run universal health care program or single payer ("Medicare for all") as it is known today.

Butler's ideas were used by Republicans in Congress in 1992 and 1993 as they sought an alternative to President Bill Clinton's health care reform. The Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act (or HEART) was introduced by Lincoln Chafee and co-sponsored by 19 Senate Republicans including Bob Dole, Chuck Grassley, Orrin Hatch and Alan Simpson.

Are you sensing a pattern?

Republicans only support market-based reforms when single-payer programs look possible.

Instead of killing ourselves trying to explain conservative health care reform to conservatives every time they gin up outrage, we should be threatening to fight for single payer.

The beauty is that they've already generated the outrage. Every time they yell "Repeal and Replace" we should shout: "We're with you! Let's expand Medicare for everyone!"

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the minute Democrats start taking up the cry for a single payer program, the conservative outrage machine dials back the anger.

Why don't we attack instead of forcing liberals to defend a program we never wanted?

Imagine Democratic members of Congress actually having a response to Republican attacks on the ACA instead of limply trying to justify the solution.

It would sound like this:
There've been some early issues with the Affordable Care Act. We're committed to making it better, but if it doesn't work, we have proven alternatives. One is Medicare. I'm introducing a bill in the Senate this week to expand Medicare to everyone.

Then when Republicans vote for the 48th time to repeal the ACA (and yes, they've already voted 47 times to repeal!), hold a vote in the Senate to expand Medicare. Make Republicans explain why they're not in favor of a better alternative.

It's a no-lose scenario. Best case, we turn Republican outrage into a better program. While I don't think this is likely, wouldn't it be ironic if Republican-generated outrage led to single payer?

At the very least, we counter the anti-Obamacare outrage, fight for something we believe in, and show that Republicans aren't really interested in better solutions.

David Akadjian writes under this alias for Daily Kos. Follow him @akadjian.[/font]
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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

I've said this before, rather than creat a whole new "system" why didn't they expand medicare to include all those who didn't have insurance. It was already in place and just needed to be expanded to accomodate those without insurance.
If the real goal was to cover those without insurance or couldn't afford insurance the answer was right in front of them. But noooooo, they had to throw hundreds of millions of dollars away creating this obamacare "thing".

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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by Big RR »

Why indeed. Could it be because the republicans and some democrats refused to even discuss a single payor system? I think so.

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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by Lord Jim »

I think the ship has sailed on "single payer" for the foreseeable future...

Given how badly the government has managed to fuck this up, somehow I just don't see a majority of the public thinking, "Gee I know what we should do. Let's have the government take over all of healthcare!"

In order for a threat to be effective it has to be credible. This one ain't.
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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by Lord Jim »

I think the author of that article has really got a political tin ear if he honestly believes that advocating for a single payer system would be a winning strategy for the Democrats in the 2014 midterm elections...

Let me be the first to invite the Democrats to do that...
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the minute Democrats start taking up the cry for a single payer program, the conservative outrage machine dials back the anger.
Well then pal, you'll find yourself plummeting earthward from that broken limb, because the reality is that if the Democrats were to do that, all they would be doing is handing their GOP opponents yet another 2X4 to whack them with...

The Republican response would be : "See? This is what they've wanted all along; socialized medicine!"

As for the single payer system itself:

I believe I've mentioned before that I think the proponents for it made a huge strategic blunder in how it was promoted....

It could have been promoted as a huge stimulus for private business, freeing up billions of dollars spent on healthcare plans for employees to be spent on business expansion, hiring more employees, etc. This would have been a particularly appealing argument at the time, when the economy was mired in a deep recession...

If they had done this, they might have found themselves with some unlikely allies in the business community, (like the US Chamber of Commerce) bringing pressure on members of Congress to pass it...

But they didn't have the political smarts to do this; instead they tried to shame and scold people into supporting it, and made arguments that have always been really persuasive with the American public , like; "We ought to be more like Europe." :roll:

I suspect that the reason the smart strategy for going after a single payer plan didn't occur to it's proponents is because they fundamentally dislike private business and didn't want to "taint" the purity and nobility of their cause by presenting it as a boon to the evil private sector.
Last edited by Lord Jim on Sat Dec 07, 2013 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by dgs49 »

Politically the ACA will be the gift that just keeps on giving...

It's disastrous roll-out reinforces what Republicans have been saying all along - the Government can't be trusted to handle a program as big and important as universal healthcare (actually, health insurance).

The lies that were necessary to sell this stupid program are now coming home to roost, leaving Our Beloved President with about as much political capital as Jimmy Carter.

Throughout 2014, "Hard Working Americans" will be discovering and re-discovering how they have been condemned to pay through the nose for coverage that is worse than what they had before.

This ain't really a single issue; it's the exposure of the bankruptcy of a flawed philosophy of governance. The Government is NOT the solution. On the contrary...

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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by Econoline »

Lord Jim wrote:I think the author of that article has really got a political tin ear if he honestly believes that advocating for a single payer system would be a winning strategy for the Democrats in the 2014 midterm elections...

Let me be the first to invite the Democrats to do that...

The Republican response would be : "See? This is what they've wanted all along; socialized medicine!"
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the minute Democrats start taking up the cry for a single payer program, the conservative outrage machine dials back the anger.
Well then pal, you'll find yourself plummeting earthward from that broken limb, because the reality is that if the Democrats were to do that, all they would be doing is handing their GOP opponents yet another 2X4 to whack them with...

The Republican response would be : "See? This is what they've wanted all along; socialized medicine!"
BUT... If it was sold as "Medicare for everyone" the Republicans would have to convince millions of satisfied Medicare recipients to hate what they already know and like.

Ever hear of the Overton Window, Jim?

Of course you have...it's how the Republican party has managed to push political discourse so far to the right that what used to be "centrist" positions are now called "extreme leftist" and what used to be called "right-wing wacko" positions are now called "middle-of-the-road". Its most important feature is the fact that It's a method for creating political possibilities, not winning elections or passing legislation per se.
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The Overton window is a concept in political theory, named after the former vice president of the Mackinac Center for Public Policy, Joe Overton, who developed the model. It describes a "window" in the range of public reactions to ideas in public discourse, in a spectrum of all possible options on an issue.

Overton described a method for moving that window, thereby including previously excluded ideas, while excluding previously acceptable ideas. The technique relies on people promoting ideas even less acceptable than the previous "outer fringe" ideas. That makes those old fringe ideas look less extreme, and thereby acceptable.

Delivering rhetoric to define the window provides a plan of action to make more acceptable to the public some ideas by priming them with other ideas allowed to remain unacceptable, but which make the real target ideas seem more acceptable by comparison.

The way to shift the Overton Window is by moving the edges, by pushing ideas that are even more extreme than what is actually desired.
The Democrats are sure not going to win any elections by letting the Republicans define the playing field and invent the rules of the game.
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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by Lord Jim »

If it was sold as "Medicare for everyone" the Republicans would have to convince millions of satisfied Medicare recipients to hate what they already know and like.
Actually Econo, it's the Democrats who would have to convince millions of Americans who aren't on Medicare, that they would be better off on Medicare than with their current plan...(or whatever plan the ACA ultimately leaves them with.)

Additionally they would have to convince millions of Americans that the federal government is capable administering effectively a huge new federal program, (or vast expansion of an existing program, if you prefer that language) that would involve the direct government take over of 1/6th of the economy....(And that the new proposal was being presented honestly, which the last one certainly wasn't, and to a certain extent still isn't)

I submit to you that in the present environment, in the wake of the current fiasco involving government's attempt to take on the far more modest tasks created by Obamacare, that would be a very, very tough sell....

On top of all of that, they'd also have to come up with some scheme to pay for this huge new entitlement, or they'd leave themselves open to getting slapped around on that aspect of it as well....

Look, I'm not going to pretend that I know how this whole Obamacare thing is ultimately going to shake out; only rubato a fool would do that. There are simply too many moving parts and unknowns at this point to speak with certainty about how this thing will look three or four years from now...

However, based on what has happened so far, and the shoes left to drop; like the huge impact this is going to have on employer-based insurance, and the consequences for rates in the individual markets if the March 31st enrollment targets aren't met. (and a new shoe we didn't even know about till recently...the fact that a sizable number of folks who signed up for Obamacare didn't actually have their info forwarded to the insurance companies on the back end...Meaning that after Jan.1st there'll be a bunch of news stories about people who thought they had coverage contacting their doctors and finding out that they don't...Happy New Year, Mr. President...) it's a pretty safe bet that Obamacare is going to be a net negative for any Democrat running for any Congressional seat that isn't gerrymandered in their favor, or any Senate seat that isn't in a state that is deep, deep blue...

Dave is right about this point; for the short term at least, politically Obamacare is likely to be "the gift that keeps on giving". Even under the most rosy scenarios that can be realistically conceived, (not absurdly fanciful scenarios, but positive ones that at least aren't on Fantasy Island) it is reasonable to assume that when November of next year rolls around, this transition is will have created millions of angry, unhappy people...

And angry, unhappy people are precisely the sorts who show up to vote in disproportionate numbers in midterm elections...

So, for all these reasons, Obamacare is going to be a political monkey on the back of Democrats running for the House and Senate all over the country next fall, that's simply a political fact of life. Their party owns this thing. (Maybe four years from now the Dems will all be able to crow about it and say "I told you" so but that isn't going to help anybody facing a tough re-election in 2014.)

The best thing they can do is to try and minimize the damage (What Landrieu and others are doing is actually the smart move; no matter what the guy who wrote the article in the OP thinks) and put some distance between themselves and the law in it's current form and basically run on an "I want to fix it so it will work" platform....

But the Democrats real secret weapon for staving off a disaster in the midterms, (something like a 20 seat loss in the House and losing control of the Senate ) is....

You guessed; the Grand Old Party...

As I've expressed before, I have every confidence that my party can still piss this away...

Maybe we can shut the government down a couple of more times, and maybe our primary voters can nominate a new flock of cuckoo bird candidates who express their belief in things like "voluntary rape"...(Though there are some hopeful signs on that last part; in two recent Congressional special elections, the nut house candidate was defeated by a mainstream Conservative.)
The Democrats are sure not going to win any elections by letting the Republicans define the playing field and invent the rules of the game.
Yes, but the way they get out of that box isn't with a bunch of Happy Talk about Obamacare, or let alone trying to sell "Medicare for all" :roll: ...none of that will work in the time frame we're looking at...

No, the way they change the playing field is by getting off of Obamacare and trying to make the election about something else...

If I were advising a Democratic candidate in a tough re-election battle for the House or Senate, here's what I would tell them to do (in addition to hoping the Republicans fuck up.):

1.Put some distance between yourself and the current ACA law as well as this increasingly unpopular administration. Make some proposals to improve the law; point out the popular features, and make the case that what's good about it makes it worth fixing rather than chucking it.

2. Don't spend all day talking about Obamacare. Say and do the kinds of things in point one, but then move on to other issues and hammer at them relentlessly. A lot of the stuff that the GOP in the House will be proposing as part of a budget deal are likely to be budget cuts that will be very unpopular and even frightening to lots of people. Talk about those things, and when necessary embellish them. Talk about their unpopular social issue positions. (This will help you particularly with women) Get the Hispanic community in your state or district frightened and angered by the Republican foot dragging on Immigration Reform, and the minorities frightened by their social welfare spending proposals, (like slashing food stamps by 40 billion.)

Look at each of the groups in your constituency and find something either in your opponent's position or in some position taken by other Republicans that you can tie your opponent to, to scare that voter segment with. (That shouldn't be too tough; the GOP have plenty of unpopular positions.)

In summary, the core of your strategy is to create as many frightened people as possible. This is because frightened people are the other big demographic, (besides angry and unhappy people) that vote disproportionately in midterm elections. For every voter your opponent is able to turn out who is angry and/or unhappy with Obamacare, you must turn out a voter who is frightened of your opponent and/or the policies of their party. Your path to victory lies in having the frightened people who show up to vote out number the angry/unhappy people who turn out.

Now that strategy may look Machiavellian, (and not very inspiring or uplifting, and yes, even a tad depressing... but there's a reason Machiavelli has endured for so many centuries...) but that strategy reflects the contemporary political reality.

David Brooke had what I think was a very poignant observation last week on Meet The Press. He said that the party that will come out the loser in the mitderm elections is the one "that commits suicide last."

There are plenty of reasons to think, and arguments that can be made, for why neither one of the parties should do well in 2014, but somebody has to win.
Last edited by Lord Jim on Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:13 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by Lord Jim »

A couple of other things I would advise my Democratic candidate:

There's a talking point refrain being repeated over and over again currently by Democratic pols and pundits, "What's the Republican plan? The Republicans don't have a plan! What's their plan, huh? What's their plan?"....blah, blah, blah, yada yada yada....

This may sound wonderful in the Democratic partisan echo chamber, but there are three reasons why you should stay away from it:

1. It doesn't bring you (or deny your opponent) a single vote that you otherwise wouldn't have. The Democratic partisans who think this is a really clever retort are going to vote for you anyway, (your problem with them is just making sure they show up.) and nobody else is likely to care; certainly no one is going to base their vote on it.

There isn't one single normal person who gets up in the morning hears that and then says to themselves, "Well I wasn't going to vote, but now that I've heard that the Republicans haven't put forward a plan for comprehensive healthcare, I'm going to go to the polls and vote for the Democrat!"

Not one....

2.It's a very weak sort of deflection that invites an obvious subtext. It's a complete non-response that doesn't at all address concerns about Obamacare. What a lot of people will hear when you say that is, "Well, yeah, our plan may suck, but what about the other guys? They don't even have a plan, not even one that sucks as bad as ours."

Not a big vote getter...

3. This is the most important reason you want to avoid repeating the "no plan" refrain. It invites people to talk and think about Obamacare. You don't want people talking or thinking about Obamacare, you want them talking and thinking about something else, (just about anything else) other than Obamacare. Believe me, your opponent is going to be working overtime to get people thinking and talking about Obamacare. You don't want to help them.

If it's unavoidable, you stick to something short and simple and then change the subject:

"I fully agree that there are serious problems with some aspects of the current law, which is why I have parted company with the Administration, and support X Y and Z to help fix these problems. And I'm just as unhappy about the misleading way much of this was promoted as you are. However, I believe there are many good things in the bill, [tick off a couple of popular provisions, like the stay on your parents insurance till your 26, and the can't be denied coverage for a pre-existing condition part] and if I'm re-elected one of my top priorities will be to work tirelessly to fix this bill so that it will work as promised."

" Now I'd like to talk about my opponent and his party, and their proposals for slashing 40 billion from the food stamp program, requiring mandatory invasive ultrasounds for any woman considering exercising her reproductive rights, [DO NOT say "abortion"] and of course their plan to take away Grandma's social security."

***************

There's one other thing that you do want to mention, but you want to be sure you do it in a careful and targeted way...To the greatest extent possible, you want to try to "fly under the radar" with it...

This is the part about all the folks who are now getting healthcare for free who didn't have it before....

You certainly want to communicate about this to the people who have benefited from it. Not because they'll show up to vote for you out of gratitude, (grateful people generally find better things to do than voting on election day in midterm elections; grateful people are pretty much useless to you.) but because it will give you the opportunity to scare them into thinking that if your opponent wins the new free benefits they have received could be taken away. (This of course would actually be a practical impossibility because it would require Republican veto proof majorities in both the House and the Senate, plus all of them voting to kill a benefit which was already in place, which ain't gonna happen...but there's really no need to mention that...)

This way you can turn these folks into frightened people, and greatly improve the chances that they will turn out to vote against your opponent. (You may recall I discussed in my previous memo the central importance of frightened people to your election success.)

So you want to reach out to these people with mailers, emails, robo calls...

If you have a speech or town meeting your conducting in an economically depressed area, you want to bring it up then; you certainly want to have your campaign workers in those areas bringing it up; you might have some fliers distributed, maybe even some limited local targeted media...

But you absolutely DO NOT want to make this a prominent part of your overall campaign theme, for two reasons:

1. You're unnecessarily inviting people to think and talk about Obamacare. (We've already been over all the reasons you don't want to do this.... )

2. You run the risk of inspiring people who are angry and/or unhappy about Obamacare to become even more motivated to show up to vote against you.

A person who has fallen into the Jessica Sanford category, (used to have healthcare, but now, thanks to Obamacare, can't afford it and instead pays the penalty.) or people who do still manage to afford their healthcare, but now have a plan they like less that doesn't include the doctor they liked, and also costs a lot more with a much higher deductible, (meaning they now don't have additional money to save or spend on other things) are likely to become even more pissed off if they see and hear you chipperly reminding them that while they're getting screwed, a bunch of other folks are now getting what they had for nothing....

In general, Americans are a generous and good-hearted people who are happy to see the less fortunate have their conditions improved...

Except when they see themselves as taking it in the shorts.....
Last edited by Lord Jim on Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by rubato »

The biggest emotional driver for the general public in the HC debate is fear and the debates are framed in the most crude dualistic terms. People who are on Medicare support it because they are afraid of what would happen if it was taken away and any suggested changes which are not obvious improvements are immediately seen as a threat. People who had (formerly) decent HI through work were afraid of changing anything because they were afraid of losing what they had and didn't want to push for reform for the large numbers of people who had nothing because they were afraid of losing what they had.

People who don't have HI and make the median income or less are afraid because they know that they and their family members can die of treatable diseases or have decades of saving for retirement wiped out. But people in that group are more fully occupied with the struggle for daily existence and have less time for politics. The politically astute and cynical said "fuck them they don't count" and left them to their fate.

Now employers, many of whom admitted that they would prefer the Canadian system or one of the European schemes (since many of them have large operations there and see the economic benefits), are systematically destroying employer-provided HI. First because it saves costs to them and now that they've gotten rid of pensions this is the next big thing in cutting wages and benefits and second because if people have crappy employer-provided care there will be enough political pressure to make a large and wrenching change to single-payer socialised medicine. large companies want socialised medicine but don't want to have to admit it in so many terms because it contradicts their ideology and if they admitted their ideology was wrong their heads would explode. Either that or self-deception was the easier and more well-trodden intellectual course.

In any case the future holds two directions; we either begin, now, to create some transition to a better system for all such as the ACA or allow the rapid degradation of employer-provided care to shift more working people into poverty and allow our healthcare system, already the worst in the G-20, to get even worse.




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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by rubato »

The Democrats need to say that the Republican Plan is "let them die or be driven into permanent poverty". Because that is their plan. That has always been their plan.


Democrats need to educate the general public about just how bad our HC system is, how many people are harmed by it, how many are ruined economically, and how the costs are currently shifted to the lowest paid.

All that Democrats need to do is to be clear, tell the truth, and don't get distracted by bullshit side issues.

Thousands of people die in the US each year, many times the number killed in 9-11 because our HC system is broken. We have seen elsewhere that if we emulated the EU countries there would be 8,000 fewer infant deaths per year. And that is a small fraction, one small slice of the total suffering which the Republican "plan" is trying to preserve.

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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by Lord Jim »

Democrats need to educate the general public about just how bad our HC system is, how many people are harmed by it, how many are ruined economically, and how the costs are currently shifted to the lowest paid.
That's a splendid strategy rubato! Yes sir, campaigns are all about "education"...especially in off year elections...the guy with the most complicated argument always wins...

I sure hope the Democrats are cunning enough to follow that game plan rather than use the stupid ideas I suggested... :ok
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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by rubato »

The message is quite simple. Show people how the current system (aka "The Republican Plan") is working. Show how increasing coverage via expanded Medicaid and the Exchanges will make it less bad. And show it to voters who are most effected by it (self-interest) and to intelligent people who will have good coverage anyway (affluent, educated and moral persons like me).

Not difficult at all.

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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by Joe Guy »

rubato wrote:....and to intelligent people who will have good coverage anyway (affluent, educated and moral persons like me).
And you can support that statement how?.... :funee:

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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by Gob »

WWRD?
“If you trust in yourself, and believe in your dreams, and follow your star. . . you'll still get beaten by people who spent their time working hard and learning things and weren't so lazy.”

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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by Lord Jim »

Rube's in rare form today...

nonstop hilarity.... :lol:
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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by rubato »

And that's three drunken idiots who can't follow the thread, are there more?

Try responding on point. If you ever can.

The fact is that I have "platinum" health coverage and will for the rest of my life. The Permanente Medical Group provides -0- cost health insurance for life. It would be dishonest not to point it out. But the fact is that I want everyone to have coverage as good as mine. Unlike the Republican assholes who want everyone else to die while they (everyone else) pay for the system of hospitals and emergency rooms which Republicans depend on.

Morons.

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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by Lord Jim »

rubato wrote:The message is quite simple. Show people how the current system (aka "The Republican Plan") is working. Show how increasing coverage via expanded Medicaid and the Exchanges will make it less bad. And show it to voters who are most effected by it (self-interest) and to intelligent people who will have good coverage anyway (affluent, educated and moral persons like me).

Not difficult at all.

yrs,
rubato
LOL :lol: :lol: :lol:

You really haven't the slightest idea of the current American political dynamics do you?

Let alone how midterm elections work...

I would like to think that the Democratic strategists in 2014 will be as clueless as you, but I'm sure that's an unrealistic expectation...
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Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

rubato wrote:And that's three drunken idiots who can't follow the thread, are there more?

Try responding on point. If you ever can.

The fact is that I have "platinum" health coverage and will for the rest of my life. The Permanente Medical Group provides -0- cost health insurance for life. It would be dishonest not to point it out. But the fact is that I want everyone to have coverage as good as mine. Unlike the Republican assholes who want everyone else to die while they (everyone else) pay for the system of hospitals and emergency rooms which Republicans depend on.

Morons.

yrs,
rubato
Are you going to pay for it? If not, who is? Remember, the government makes $0 on it's own, and only has money taken from tax payers who's wages are declining (aka,less being collected by the gov).

Andrew D
Posts: 3150
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 5:01 pm
Location: North California

Re: How to Get Republicans to Support the Affordable Care Ac

Post by Andrew D »

The US shells out 17.9% of its GDP for health care.

Here is a partial list of countries that spend less than 2/3 that percentage -- i.e., less than 11.9% -- of their GDPs on health care:

Australia
Austria
Belgium
Canada
Denmark
Finland
Germany
Greece
Iceland
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Japan
Luxembourg
New Zealand
Norway
Portugal
Spain
Sweden
Switzerland
United Kingdom

They are getting, on the whole, health outcomes as good as, or even better than, ours. And they are paying a lot less for it. Clearly, they are doing something right, and we are doing something wrong.
Reason is valuable only when it performs against the wordless physical background of the universe.

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