The United Police States of America

[Big RR]

But advocates who act on behalf of animals have a right to demand this humane/kind treatment on behalf of the animal, and to seek to punish those who do not treat them correctly. To me it goes beyond just treating an animal humanely because of who I am; I may choose to treat a store clerk with courtesy and respect because I believe it is a moral obligation to do so (and it demeans me if I do not) but the store clerk cannot demand this treatment under force of law, society has allowed the animals (through their advocates) to demand humane treatment. I see a difference.

[Lord Jim]

Domestic animals are not mere possessions, they are recognized as something under the law that has some right to be treated certain ways, and this is enforceable by persons, like ASPCA reps, who can appear in court and compel the owner to do certain things.

I fully support those laws and the criminal prosecution of those who violate them. In fact I think that in many jurisdictions the penalties for "animal cruelty" are far too lenient, I would be in favor of increasing them. Any person who engages in gratuitous cruelty or deliberate neglect towards a helpless creature is a disgusting lowlife who deserves to have the book thrown at them.

I'm sure we're agreed that it is morally wrong for animals to be mistreated, and appropriate that those who do so should be subject to punishment under the law. What we're not agreed on, (and frankly I think we'll just go 'round and 'round on and never agree on) is the moral foundation that this view is built upon.

I again have to agree with rube (not something I enjoy doing...) it's about obligations, not about rights...

I think rube had it exactly right, (oh man that was really painful to type... ) here:

We have an obligation to treat animals humanely, kindly even, because not to do so is degrading to us.

[dales]

Code: Select all

I think rube had it exactly right, (oh man that was really painful to type...  ) here:

It was as painful to read.

[BoSoxGal]

LJ, all of the things you wrote about the origins of animal behavior, etc., are cut from a rubric that is now changing in significant ways. There is much we don't actually understand about animal behavior and intelligence - we have just assumed certain things about animals, applying our own opinion and lens to our observations of their behavior. I don't know how much you keep up with zoology studies, but there have been many recent findings in the arena of animal behavior observation that suggest a much greater self-awareness and reasoning ability in higher order mammals - and there is also evidence that animals at times act against self-interest to the benefit of another animal, not only offspring.

[rubato]

LJ, all of the things you wrote about the origins of animal behavior, etc., are cut from a rubric that is now changing in significant ways. There is much we don't actually understand about animal behavior and intelligence - we have just assumed certain things about animals, applying our own opinion and lens to our observations of their behavior. I don't know how much you keep up with zoology studies, but there have been many recent findings in the arena of animal behavior observation that suggest a much greater self-awareness and reasoning ability in higher order mammals - and there is also evidence that animals at times act against self-interest to the benefit of another animal, not only offspring.

The study of 'altruism' in animal behavior is not recent, or new. Generally when the behavior is not to the advantage of that individual organism or that organisms immediate offspring it is to the benefit of a group to which both of those belong so that evolutionary biology explains it well enough. Examples of this are mammals who give 'alert calls' to warn of the appearance of predators (hawks, coyotes or the like). The alert call brings the attention of the predator to that individual (and is thus presumptively against their evolutionary interest) but increases the survival value of the rest of the group (who include both genetic kin and non-genetic kin). You can claim that the alert call is 'altruistic' in that it does not enhance the survival rate of that individual. in fact it does the opposite, but having such a behavior coded for genetically overall does increase that organisms offsprings chances of survival (although that particular organism might have no progeny at that point). And having such a behavior coded for genetically improves the survival rate of that species even when it reduces the chance of an individuals survival.

This area had been long studied by the time I was in college in the late 70s. (E.O. Wilson, Robert Trivers &c)


yrs,
rubato

[Jarlaxle]

Back to the thread's actual topic...THIS is what happens when a cop dares to NOT toe the line. His "brother" officers are quick to arrest him i=on bogus charges, do their damndest to get him killed, and even cut loose violent felons to punish him!

[BoSoxGal]

Here's another troubling example of our police state:

Officer to Citizen: “You must be doing something wrong if you invoke your rights”
By Matt Agorist on August 28, 2014

Two videographers were in Jacksonville Florida conducting a First Amendment Audit on Wednesday. They were filming prisoners being transported in and out of the Duval County Courthouse’s sally port.

A sally port is usually behind a wall or other fixed protection but the this one empties right on to a public roadway.

The first cameraman is approached by two Jacksonville officers and immediately asked what he is doing, to which the cameraman responds, “I am filming in a public space.”

Sgt. Richardson of the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office informs the cameraman that this public space is a “secure area,” and he cannot be filming here, and begins to ask more questions.

When the cameraman invokes his 5th Amendment right, he is told by Sgt. Richardson, ”You must be doing something wrong if you invoke your rights.”

Let that sink in…..

This statement by Richardson could have been a Freudian slip or a brutally honest admission. Either way, it is disturbing.

SCOTUS ruled in June of 2013, in Salinas V. Texas, that remaining silent could actually be used as evidence of guilt.

To prevent the privilege against self-incrimination from shielding information not properly within its scope, a witness who “`desires the protection of the privilege . . . must claim it’” at the time he relies on it.
In other words, simply remaining silent is not enough, you must specifically invoke your 5th Amendment right. However, if police treat those who know and invoke their rights as criminals, what does that say about the current state of affairs in police state USA?

Read more at http://thefreethoughtproject.com/office ... ujVCESD.99

[Econoline]

School district police departments in Texas are acquiring military surplus equipment, including trucks, guns, and armor.

Yes, you read that correctly: school district police.

[Grim Reaper]

Accused of stealing a back pack, a teenager spends 3 years in jail before his case is dismissed. And various sources claim that he spent over 400 days in solitary confinement.

[Econoline]

The story: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/10/watc ... ffic-stop/

[BoSoxGal]

Unless that guy was wanted in connection for a violent crime, there is NO reason that should have gone down like that - over a failure to wear seatbelt citation????

The other story I read this weekend in The New Yorker - it's awful, too. Taking a decent kid and turning him into one with PTSD from three years in prison for charges the State couldn't make????

It's no wonder to me now why O.J. Simpson was acquitted in his murder trial; I was astounded and unbelieving at the time, but I realize I was just very, very naive about the daily experiences of brown people at the hands of those sworn to protect and serve. Of course they see cops as the enemy, capable of fabricating evidence and far worse.

[Jarlaxle]

It's very simple: police are the country's most dangerous street gang. Dealing with a cop should be handled like dealing with an MS-13 member.

[wesw]

they sure didn t look scared....

[wesw]

first thing you should learn big sky, at the street level black people call themselves black. and Hispanic people think of themselves as white. at least the Hondurans I know do.

don t be mad, that s just been my experience

[BoSoxGal]

first thing you should learn big sky, at the street level black people call themselves black. and Hispanic people think of themselves as white. at least the Hondurans I know do.

don t be mad, that s just been my experience

Somehow I missed this, but just so you understand, 'brown people' is the term I use to encompass all the shades of non-white in existence.

I've spent lots of time around black people, I know that many of them call themselves black and some of them prefer 'African American'.

[BoSoxGal]

I've been awful busy the past few months, planning my new law practice and tying things up at my current office - but, I've neglected this thread terribly. My apologies!

Here's a really good story about one of the 'fine boys in blue':

McDonald's worker charged in glass-in-Big Mac case wins $437K
By Associated Press
POSTED: 06:52 a.m. HST, Nov 21, 2014


ASSOCIATED PRESS
Albert Garcia, right, smiles while posing for a photo with his attorney Raymond Aab, outside State Supreme Court in New York, Thursday, Nov. 20, 2014.

NEW YORK >> A former McDonald's worker acquitted of charges he placed shards of glass into a police officer's Big Mac nearly a decade ago has won a $437,000 settlement from the city after arguing the officer fabricated the story to win money by suing the fast food restaurant.

Albert Garcia was 18 in January 2005 when Officer John Florio accused him of spiking his burger with broken glass. He initially confessed after being questioned by four detectives for hours in a small, windowless room in the Bronx restaurant.

But Garcia, who has an IQ of 81, soon recanted, and his lawyer's investigation revealed enough inconsistencies in the officers' testimonies that the state's highest court unexpectedly decided to hear the assault case this year. The case had been dismissed in 2012, a decision upheld by a lower state appeals court.

Last month, the city agreed to a settlement.

"I was thrilled when I found out," said Garcia, a 28-year-old father of two who works as a counselor at a Bronx YMCA and is studying criminal justice. "I really thought this wasn't going to happen."

It might not have if Florio hadn't pursued a $6 million civil claim against the McDonald's franchise owner about a week after the burger incident. The claim was settled in 2009 for $15,000, said Garcia's lawyer, Raymond Aab.

"That really opened the door for me," said Aab, noting it allowed him to take Florio's and other detectives' depositions, thus uncovering crucial inconsistencies.

Calls to Florio weren't returned. His former lawyer, Richard Kenny, said though he hadn't spoken with Florio in some time, he believed in his honesty and his innocence.

"He was crestfallen and I would say slightly even devastated by the implication that he conjured up this set of facts in an effort to make money," Kenny said. "I think Garcia's lawyer did an outstanding job on his behalf, but I think John Florio was a real victim here."

On this much everyone agrees: On January 29, 2005, Florio, a now-retired veteran officer assigned to the canine unit, stopped at about 11:30 p.m. at the McDonald's drive-thru window and ordered a No. 1 combo meal: a Big Mac, fries and a Coke.

But just minutes later, while driving on a busy expressway with his dog Dodger aboard, Florio testified that about three bites into his hamburger, he felt sharp pain and what he thought might be a cracked tooth.

He took Dodger to Randall's Island for about 45 minutes, called a superior and then made his way to a Queens hospital emergency room, court documents show.

But despite what Florio told fellow officers, medical records from the ER visit show Florio suffered from no apparent symptoms of swallowing glass, Aab claims in papers. What's more, while Florio said he told his family doctor that he had recovered glass shards in his stools, the doctor testified the conversation never took place, the papers show.

And there were more problems.

Restaurant workers testified that Garcia got to work a half hour late the night of the burger affair and thus wasn't even working when Florio was purchasing his meal -- a piece of information that never found its way into a crucial police report, according to the papers. [Something exculpatory didn't make it into the police reports???? NEVER!]

The police department referred questions to a spokesman for the city's Law Department, who said the payout was in the best interest of all parties.

Garcia said he's glad to put a cap on the whole saga, which once grabbed many tabloid headlines -- and earned another one Wednesday evening when the Daily News first reported the settlement.

"It's not fair what they did," he said. "It makes a lot of good officers look bad."

Ironically, this ad was on the page with this story:

[BoSoxGal]

Merry Christmas to the Good Cops!

[Lord Jim]

Nice story

[BoSoxGal]

It's been a while, but don't worry, America's finest have many stories worthy of posting - besides the ones all over national news the past few grand jury rulings.

Here's a real redneck policing story:

Indian granddad left paralyzed by Alabama cops who threw him to the ground - after his new neighbors reported a 'suspicious' person walking in their quiet suburb

By Wills Robinson For Dailymail.com
22:06 12 Feb 2015, updated 03:58 13 Feb 2015

An Indian grandfather has been left paralyzed after a police officer violently frisked him and pulled him to the ground - even though he wasn't committing a crime.

Sureshbhai Patel was walking along a sidewalk in Madison, Alabama, last week when he was roughed up by the cop and pushed to floor - injuring his spine.

The 57-year-old, who doesn't speak English, had only been in the country for two weeks, arriving so he could help take care of his 17-month-old grandson.

He is being treated in Huntsville Hospital and has limited movement in his right leg but his family fear he may never leave.

Madison Police have wished Mr Patel a speedy recovery and have suspended one of the officers involved while they investigate what happened.

Scroll down for video [you have to go to the Mail for the video; you have to see it!: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... crime.html]

Horrifying: Sureshbhai Patel has been left temporarily paralyzed after he was frisked and pulled to the ground by a police officer in Madison, Alabama. The cop in question, who has not been named, has been suspended

Two officers initially responded to a complaint a 'suspicious person' was looking in garages around the neighborhood which residents say is usually quiet.

The caller said they did not recognize Mr Patel and claimed he was walking on other people's property.

When they arrived on the scene he said 'no English', and repeated his son's house number in a bid to inform them he was in fact a resident.

He stepped away when officers tried to search him, prompting one of them to bring him to the ground.

They claim a 'communication barrier' is partially to blame for what happened and have wished Mr Patel a speedy recovery.

His son Chirag, who paid for him to fly over from the small Indian village of Pij, told AL.com: 'This is a good neighborhood. I didn't expect anything to happen.

'He was just walking on the sidewalk as he does all the time. They put him to the ground.'

'It is a dream for me because I came from a very poor family and I worked so hard here.'

Hank Sherrod, an attorney for the family, told the site: 'This is broad daylight, walking down the street. There is nothing suspicious about Mr. Patel other than he has brown skin.

'This is just one of those things that doesn't need to happen.'

The police statement read: 'The subject began putting his hands in his pockets. Officers attempted to pat the subject down and he attempted to pull away. The subject was forced to the ground, which resulted in injury.

Madison Police have refused to reveal the identity of the officer involved and have not released video or audio evidence of the stop.

A GoFundMe account has been set up to help pay for Mr Patel's medical bills. The goal is to reach more than $25,000.

Sorry for the formatting - posting from my phone. I'll fix it later but go to the link for the pictures and story. It's AWFUL! Reminds me of the local cops.

[BoSoxGal]

Another doozie. This negligent cop father leaves his 4 year old boy totally unattended (dad is upstairs showering) and kid goes out to play with police dog who has been kenneled for 2 days!

Boy, 4, has to have his leg amputated after being attacked by police officer father's K9



By MYRIAH TOWNER FOR DAILYMAIL.COM and ASSOCIATED PRESS
PUBLISHED: 15:27 EST, 12 February 2015 | UPDATED: 20:31 EST, 12 February 2015

Hunter Mastaler, as named in local reports, had his left leg amputated a few inches below the knee following damage to the arteries and veins, and will receive a prosthetic leg.

The attack occurred at the family's home in Hesperia, California last Sunday afternoon involving police take-home K9 Jango - the dog handled for two years by the child's father, Michael Mastaler, an officer for the Rialto Police Department.

Neighbors said they heard the boy screaming when the attack happened on February 8 around 4.30pm.

Mr Mastaler had been away for two days when he returned home and let six-year-old Jango out of his kennel, and into the backyard before going upstairs, according to the Victorville Daily Press.

While he was in the shower, Hunter, who was left watching TV and playing games, wandered into the backyard after somehow making his way through the sliding glass door, and was attacked by the Belgian Malinois.

The boy's mother had been out running errands and he was looking for her when he made his way outside, according to Police Captain Randy DeAnda.

When neighbors heard screaming coming from the Mastalers' backyard, one broke through the wooden fence and another pulled Hunter from the dog's mouth.

Shannon Houlemard, whose husband Jeff, broke down the fence said they ran over after her sons heard screaming from down the road.

When neighbors heard screaming coming from the Mastalers' backyard, one broke through the wooden fence and another pulled Hunter from the dog's mouth. One neighbor said he kicked the dog but it would not let go so he had to pull the animal's mouth open

She said: 'There was a neighbor over there first who was just trying to hit the dog over the fence with a pole or something, but my husband knocked the fence over, and another kid who is a freshman in high school actually pulled (the boy) from the dog's mouth.'

During Mr Houlemard's attempts to break down the fence he said he gave it his all. 'I hit (the fence) with all I had, fell and busted my shoulder, but I ran right through it,' he said. 'I kicked the dog, but it still didn't let him go, so I whipped him around and pulled the (dog's) mouth open. '(A neighborhood teen) pulled the boy out of the dog's mouth. (The boy's leg) was already facing the wrong direction. The attack was probably going on for at least two minutes before he was pulled out. It was so traumatic.' He said: 'It was more of his life, you know, he’s a little boy. He has more to live.'

Jango will not be returning to the family's home (pictured above) and has been placed with Hesperia Animal Control in a ten-day quarantine
After neighbors banged on windows and rang the doorbell to alert Mr Mastaler, he eventually came out and got Jango under control before placing him in his cage.

As they waited for the ambulance to arrive at the scene, the Houlemards waited with Hunter, sang the alphabet and counted to keep him alert.

Mr Houlemard said he did not believe the incident happened as a result of negligence.

'(Mastaler) was hitting himself in the head, (saying), 'What the hell?' Like he had no idea how it happened,' he said. 'He was beating himself up over it and I was just telling him to help his son, and talk to him.'

The young boy was airlifted to Loma Linda University Medical Center where he has received treatment since last Sunday.

The results following the police department's investigation will determine the the dog's fate. According to Police Captain Randy DeAnda, he said that the department thinks the bite was 'accidental' and that it was a very 'tragic accident'. [NEGLIGENCE!] A GoFundMe page, which has named Hunter and the Mastaler family, has said that Hunter's recovery will continue even once he leaves hospital. DeAnda said that it is common procedure for police dogs to live with their handlers, and that under supervision of the handler, the dogs do bond with families.

Hunter's Relief Fund has already received $3,550 in donations since it was created today.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z3ReVxf3D2
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