Since The Chinese Don't Want Democracy, This Is Surprising..

[BoSoxGal]

Some people have faith in a god, and believe that in an afterlife all injustices on Earth will be rectified.


As for me, I have faith in this: "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" ~ MLK, Jr.

[rubato]

Some people have faith in a god, and believe that in an afterlife all injustices on Earth will be rectified.


As for me, I have faith in this: "The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice" ~ MLK, Jr.

Today I would say 'hope more than faith'. The history from the 1850s to 2000 was a steady triumph of Liberal reform, the expansion of individual rights, and improvement in the quality of life. The reversion since then of conservative America and conservative Islam into hopeless manicheanism has reduced my prior boundless optimism.


yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

it includes Chile (where democracy was restored after Reagan supported a brutal dictator)

... "

You're lying as usual. lying with pictures.

http://countrystudies.us/chile/111.htm

The widespread violations of human rights in Chile, combined with a strong rejection of covert activities engaged in abroad by the administration of President Richard M. Nixon, galvanized United States congressional opposition to United States ties with Chile's military government. With the election of Jimmy Carter in 1976, the United States took an openly hostile attitude toward the Chilean military government, publicly condemning human rights violations and pressing for the restoration of democracy. Particularly disturbing to the United States government was the complicity of the Chilean intelligence services in the assassination in Washington of Chilean ambassador Orlando Letelier and one of his associates, a United States citizen. That incident contributed to the isolation of the Pinochet government internationally and led to a sharp rift in relations between both countries. The Chilean military turned elsewhere for its procurement needs and encouraged the development of a domestic arms industry to replace United States equipment.

With the defeat of Jimmy Carter and the election of Ronald Reagan, the pendulum in the relations between both countries swung the other way. Reagan argued that anticommunist authoritarian regimes should not be antagonized for fear that they might be undermined, leading to the triumph of a Marxist left, as in Nicaragua. Chile would be pushed to respect human rights through "quiet diplomacy," while the United States government reestablished normal ties with the dictatorship.

But you believe your own lies so you have to make up still more to support them.

yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

[rubato]

I have a new-ish colleague who is a 40-year old Chinese from a small city (I didn't hear the name clearly) who went through university and grad school in china so I asked him, to get a more up to date opinion.

He confirmed that there is little interest in democratic reform compared to the other things which occupy their ambitions. He also said that hunger was common during his early life up to ca 20 years ago so that memory is still vivid in a large part of the population. A good motive to prefer stability and the 'iron rice bowl' to revolution and uncertainty. To understand people you have to ask "what do they want" and "what has their history been". Only a childish naif would simply transfer their own world view onto everyone else and pretend that was it.

yrs,
rubato

[rubato]

You know that you are not communicating with a bunch of drunks in a bar where that kind of thing might be accepted as a response. Many here are sober. All readers here will notice that your visual equivalent of jackass braying failed to address the point. You used a picture to make a point which was a lie. Now either you are wholly ignorant of that history and so credulous that you would take a 'photo-op' as proof of Carter's warm regards for Pinochet or you were willfully lying. But there are no other choices. Either is possible. You are as credulous and ignorant as you are dishonest. You are driven to do stupid things like that by your hatred. And it shows very clearly to everyone.

You are lying also when you suggest that I have said "The Chinese don't want democracy". I have not said that and that fact is obvious to everyone who has read both threads.

What I have said in different forms is that within the network of desires of the Chinese they currently care more about material improvement and are willing to accept a totalitarian government as long as conditions continue to improve. My colleague (referenced above) made the point that the Chinese overall are happy that the bad environment is causing the business and political elite to suffer because they will be more motivated to do something about it than they are about things which their wealth and power can insulate them from.


yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

You know that you are not communicating with a bunch of drunks in a bar

Oh, you're quite right about that...

If I were dealing with a bunch of drunks in a bar, I'd have to up my game...

Fortunately I was only responding to you and your ignorant, dishonest, trolling crap...

The next drunk in a bar I meet who can't run rings around you intellectually will be the first...

They're much more challenging by comparison...

[wesw]

the most important thing to the Chinese fellows I worked with seemed to be acquiring money.

[wesw]

the most important thing to the Chinese fellows I worked with seemed to be acquiring money.

[MajGenl.Meade]

They multiply quickly too!

[Joe Guy]

If you study global birth statistics and do some simple math, you'll see that chances are that any parents that have at least three children are very likely to have a least one Chinese child.

[MajGenl.Meade]

They'll be judged according to how they deal with that least one

[wesw]

most them were nice guys. a few had had a second child, making life in china very difficult for their family

[Econoline]

They multiply quickly too!

They add and subtract and divide quickly too. It's all those damn abacuses...