Okay, I'm Prepared To Admit It....

[loCAtek]

Pues si, my point: All persons depicted are presumed to be innocent unless proven to be guilty in a court of law.

...quite common, in the US, in fact. We gotta thing, with that.

[Econoline]

It occurs to me that Andrew could have avoided this whole mess--and could avoid such in the future--simply by routinely referring to Reagan as "Ronald the Unconvicted Felon" instead...

Just a thought.

[Andrew D]

I like it. It dovetails so perfectly with that other apothegmatic moniker for Republican Presidents: "Unindicted Co-conspirator".

[Lord Jim]

It occurs to me that Andrew could have avoided this whole mess--and could avoid such in the future--simply by routinely referring to Reagan as "Ronald the Unconvicted Felon" instead...

Actually Ronald "The In My Opinion A Felon" Reagan, would be more accurate...

[loCAtek]

IMHO?

[Sean]

Pues si, my point: All persons depicted are presumed to be innocent unless proven to be guilty in a court of law.

...quite common, in the US, in fact. We gotta thing, with that.

Nope, one of us has missed the boat here...

[loCAtek]

Unless she can produce a reliable source stating that a person who has committed a felony but not been convicted of that felony is not an unconvicted felon -- nothing more remains to be said on the subject.

However I asked you for evidence first;

Perhaps AndrewD could provide some court documents where 'felon' was used in prosecution?

Can't prove a negative, but surely a positive (if it exists) can be proved?

[Sean]

Bit unfair though... Andrew only asked you to back up your claim using "reliable sources" whereas you are insisting on "court documents"...

[loCAtek]

Well, I provided two CA legal service sites. I'm not so much as insisting on court documents but similar instances of terminology that is used in the legal process, rather than the literary one.

[Andrew D]

Must we belabor this forever?

Except in very rare instances, the law does not care whether someone is an unconvicted felon (a person who has committed a felony but has not been convicted) or not a felon at all (a person who has not committed a felony). The law cares whether someone is or is not a convicted felon. If someone is a convicted felon, then certain legal consequences follow. If someone is not a convicted felon -- regardless of whether that person has or has not committed a felony -- then those legal consequences do not follow.

I have already cited five judicial opinions which use the phrase "unconvicted felon". If loCAek is correct, and one is not a felon unless one has been convicted, then all five of those courts do not know what they're talking about.

I have repeatedly quoted Black's Law Dictionary. It says that a "felon" is a "[p]erson who commits or has committed a felony." It doesn't say anything about that person's having been convicted.

Five courts (at least) have said that one does not have to have been convicted in order to be a felon: An "unconvicted felon" self-evidently has not been convicted. Last time I checked, what courts say in their official opinions (i.e., decisions) is "terminology that is used in the legal process".

The #1 legal dictionary says that a felon is a person who commits or has committed a felony, and it does not limit the definition to a person who has been convicted. General dictionaries also say that a felon is a person who has committed a felony, and they also do not limit the definition to a person who has been convicted.

The distinction loCAtek keeps trying to draw between the legal definition of a felon and the "literary" definition of a felon simply does not exist: According to both legal and general sources, a felon is a person who has committed a felony. Period.

And who says that one is not a felon unless one has been convicted? loCAtek. And as far as we have seen, no authoritative source -- legal or general -- agrees with her.

Others will have to draw their own conclusions. As far as I'm concerned, unless someone has something new to contribute, this horse is way past dead.

[Crackpot]

But it's still identifiable as a horse!