"My Day" and the efectiveness of propaganda.

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rubato
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"My Day" and the efectiveness of propaganda.

Post by rubato »

"My Day" by Eleanor Roosevelt

https://www.gwu.edu/~erpapers/myday/dis ... f=md000155
OCTOBER 13, 1945

HYDE PARK, Friday—Today I want to talk to you about something which came to me the other day from a member of a USO entertainment group that had been in both Italy and Germany very recently.

These entertainers are young. They have perhaps a better opportunity than even the officers have for reaching conclusions about the situation as it really exists for our soldiers overseas. They see both officers and enlisted men informally. They hear much talk among the men which would never occur when officers were within earshot, and some talk among the officers which would perhaps not be as free if enlisted men were present.


The conclusions which this individual reached were that both officers and service men in Germany were the victims of a well-organized underground propaganda carried on through the German girls. For instance, it is quite usual for a German girl to throw herself upon the sympathy of the Americans because "she is a refugee from Russian-held territory." In subject ways, she sows seeds of hate against the Russians; against the Jews; against all our allies. She points out that "only the Germans have plumbing comparable to what you have in America." She asks, "How could we look with anything but contempt on the French? In France, dirt and decadence reign." She is not quite so bitter about the British. But, of course, "you Americans are better than the British," and so it goes until we almost forget that we fought the war with allies whom we found to be loyal and honest and good soldiers.

We liberated people who, because of the Germans, have sunk to physical conditions of dirt and malnutrition which would lower anyone's morale and will take years to wipe out. We almost forget that the Germans are our enemies; that they brought about all this destruction and horror and death that we see in Europe, as well as the losses among our own men. Of course, say our boys, "the girls are not responsible, because we know our girls at home would not be responsible for bringing about a war."

* * *

Last but not least, our economic advisers—looking primarily to the interests of the industrialists of this country, backed by a similar group of industrialists in England—are saying that we should reestablish the industries of Germany so that Germany may live.

Anyone who looks at the German people knows that they have suffered less than any people in Europe. What are we doing? Are we planning to make them strong again so we can have another war? Small wonder the Russians and some of the other European people are frightened by our attitude. Will we never learn the lessons of history? Not the Russians, but the Germans have brought about the past two world wars.

George S. Patton called Germans "the only people in Europe worth a damn" and resisted the de-nazification program.

One for ER

yrs,
rubato

oldr_n_wsr
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Re: "My Day" and the efectiveness of propaganda.

Post by oldr_n_wsr »

What are we doing? Are we planning to make them strong again so we can have another war?
I don't think WWIII will be the fault of the Germans. Maybe they'll be on our side this time.

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Lord Jim
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Re: "My Day" and the efectiveness of propaganda.

Post by Lord Jim »

The conclusions which this individual reached were that both officers and service men in Germany were the victims of a well-organized underground propaganda carried on through the German girls. For instance, it is quite usual for a German girl to throw herself upon the sympathy of the Americans because "she is a refugee from Russian-held territory." In subject ways, she sows seeds of hate against the Russians; against the Jews; against all our allies.
I assume that must be what you were referring to by your reference to "propaganda"...

Shameless fact-free propagandizing and hate mongering on the part of Eleanor Roosevelt...

Thanks for bringing that to our attention, rube.
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Re: "My Day" and the efectiveness of propaganda.

Post by wesw »

wow.

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dales
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Re: "My Day" and the efectiveness of propaganda.

Post by dales »

Shameless fact-free propagandizing and hate mongering on the part of Eleanor Roosevelt...
Yeah, and her no good husband sent thousands of American Citizens to concentration camps!

Your collective inability to acknowledge this obvious truth makes you all look like fools.


yrs,
rubato

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Lord Jim
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Re: "My Day" and the efectiveness of propaganda.

Post by Lord Jim »

LMAO!!!

I suspected this was the case; I've been meaning to check it for a while:

http://www.bradford-delong.com/2015/10/ ... evelt.html

Look familiar? :lol:

Ol' rube's been copying and pasting most of his stuff from the delong blog, but he stopped citing it as his source and providing a link to it (like he used to) in order to project the illusion that he actually uses many sources for "information"; rather than lazily relying primarily on just this one...(and vox.com, of course...)

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:D
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Econoline
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Re: "My Day" and the efectiveness of propaganda.

Post by Econoline »

I don't get it. Why is it dishonest to cite the original (or in this case, earlier) source for a link rather than another source which quoted/linked the original source?
:loon
If you're quoting Eleanor Roosevelt (or Ronald Reagan, for that matter ;) ) why should it matter where you came across the quote?
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
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Lord Jim
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Re: "My Day" and the efectiveness of propaganda.

Post by Lord Jim »

I don't get it.
Well then I'm happy to explain it for you...

You have to consider the context:

Rube caught hell (primarily from yours truly) for using the "delongtypepad" as his pipeline to reality, so now he's trying to hide the fact that this is what he does.

Exposing that is certainly fair game.

ETA:

If you do an Advanced Search for "rubato" and put in: http://delong.typepad.com/ you will find six pages, 103 matches, going back to shortly after he started posting here. But not one after February of this year, when he decided to start concealing this as his source. ;)

What this demonstrates is that his repeated claim that he doesn't care what anyone here thinks of him is well, bullshit... 8-)
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Re: "My Day" and the efectiveness of propaganda.

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

Amazing. I thought that the point of rubato's post was the effectiveness of propaganda put out (no pun intended) by the German girls and doubtless by others. They were persuading GIs that they were in fact "victims" - that it was Germany that had been unfairly victimized and vilified. This legend was being accepted by too many of the Allied soldiers as true.

rubato clearly criticized George Patton and gave a thumbs up to Eleanor R. (I may be wrong but I don't think so*)

And that somehow turns into first blaming rubato for criticizing Eleanor Roosevelt as the propagandist and then into a diatribe about his "source".

What got lost here is the point that victims often cry foul in order to elicit sympathy and what is needed is a true historical perspective on such claims.

I think there are perhaps numerous ways in which this point can be debated - perhaps relating it to "we didn't do it" justifications of Islamophiles, if need be. Or perhaps it can be applied to current political debates in the USA. I can't be bothered but some one might be

*yes, that was on purpose
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Lord Jim
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Re: "My Day" and the efectiveness of propaganda.

Post by Lord Jim »

First of all, I don't believe the bizarre story about "a well-organized underground propaganda carried on through the German girls."

My comment was not intended to "blame" rubato for criticizing ER. :roll: I know what he was trying to do. My comment was a sarcastic mocking of his intent, as I saw the passage I quoted about the well-organized underground conspiring German girls as clearly the obvious example of propaganda.

I suppose when one looks at the date this was written, (Oct. 13, 1945) and it's temporal proximity to the conclusion of the war, Roosevelt can be forgiven for her gullibility regarding a story like that, and her suspicion of the Germans, and her naivete about the Russians...

We now know that Josef Goebbels' efforts to organize all sorts of resistance and propaganda efforts in allied occupied portions of Germany prior to the collapse of the regime were virtually a complete flop. We also know that Russian troops cut a wide swath of rape and torture of girls and women in their march across Germany (one can argue the Russian commanders allowed this as pay-back for atrocities committed by the Germans during their invasion of Russia, but it is nevertheless an established historical fact)

Also, for someone in 2015, given subsequent events and the arc of history over the following 70 years, to think her ruminations should have some sort of contemporary relevance and serve as a cautionary tale about Germany today (which I believe was also part of rube's intent) is ridiculous.

ETA:

Oh, and if you don't like my outing rube for trying to hide his source, hard cheese... :P
Last edited by Lord Jim on Fri Oct 16, 2015 7:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "My Day" and the efectiveness of propaganda.

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

I'm pathetically grateful to receive a more measured and reasoned response. :nana
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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