Putting all your (bad) eggs in one basket

[Gob]

The government is seriously considering placing all convicted Islamist terrorist prisoners in England and Wales in a single secure unit, a proposal for a “British Alcatraz” that is prompting alarm among prison chiefs.





The idea would overturn 50 years of dispersing the most dangerous prisoners in the system and is expected to be backed by a review set up by the justice secretary, Michael Gove, to examine how the 130 convicted Islamist terrorists are dealt with behind bars.

Earlier this week, David Cameron gave a strong hint in a speech on prison reform that the option of a separate secure unit is being looked at. The prime minister said he was ready to consider major changes in the location of convicted terrorist prisoners to prevent them recruiting up to 1,000 current prisoners who have been identified as being at risk of extremist radicalisation.

“We will not stand by and watch people being radicalised like this while they are in the care of the state … And I want to be clear – I am prepared to consider major changes: from the imams we allow to preach in prison to changing the locations and methods for dealing with prisoners convicted of terrorism offences, if that is what is required,” Cameron said.

However, a leading counter-terror expert warned that bringing together all convicted Islamist prisoners in one “jail within a jail” risks creating a focal point for public protests.

Prof Peter Neumann said: “The trade-off is this: you want to separate terrorist prisoners in order to prevent them from radicalising others yet you don’t want to create a focal point for public protests – a ‘British Guantanamo’, however much of a misrepresentation that might be – or provide an opportunity for terrorist prisoners to create (or recreate) operational command structures inside prison that might not have existed outside.”

Since the 1960s terrorists incarcerated in England and Wales have been dispersed among six maximum security jails. They have then been regularly moved around the dispersal prisons to prevent long-term relationships building up between them.

Any of the current dispersal prisons could be designated to hold all convicted Islamist terrorists and converted to create a segregated terrorist unit or “jail within a jail” within their perimeter. They include Frankland near Durham, Full Sutton near York, Long Lartin in Worcestershire, Wakefield in West Yorkshire, Whitemoor in Cambridgeshire, and Belmarsh in south-east London.

Gove’s review is being led by Ian Acheson, a former prison governor and a senior Home Office official, who is understood to be actively considering recommending a separatist solution and holding convicted Islamist terrorists in one jail.

Downing Street is also understood to be interested in this approach, citing recent developments in France where Islamist terrorists have been concentrated together in isolation wings to prevent them radicalising the much larger Muslim prison population in French jails.

[RayThom]

Further radicalization as a cohesive group and then when they escape they'll have a well oiled terrorist plan ready to go. Genius.

I say integrate them with christian felons so each can help dilute their own fundamentalist beliefs. The end result might very well be tolerance of others -- or death -- whatever comes first.

Problem solved.

[Lord Jim]

The government is seriously considering placing all convicted Islamist terrorist prisoners in England and Wales in a single secure unit

Somewhat like Maze Prison, back in the IRA days, eh?

[Bicycle Bill]

Reminds me of the quote from the movie, "The Great Escape", when the German camp commandant explains why so many incorrigible Allied prisoners were placed in the camp:
"We have in effect put all our rotten eggs in one basket.  And we intend to watch this basket carefully."

And we all know how that turned out, don't we?

-"BB"-

[rubato]

Reminds me of the quote from the movie, "The Great Escape", when the German camp commandant explains why so many incorrigible Allied prisoners were placed in the camp:
"We have in effect put all our rotten eggs in one basket.  And we intend to watch this basket carefully."

And we all know how that turned out, don't we?

-"BB"-

Most of them were caught and returned or caught and murdered. Only three got away.


yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]

Congratulations rube...

After all your completely bollixed WW II Fractured Fairy Tales ("the Nazis were Christians", "the Poles weren't victims of the Nazis", "the Japanese intended to declare war before they attacked Pearl Harbor", etc, etc.,)

You finally managed to get one right...

[Jarlaxle]

The government is seriously considering placing all convicted Islamist terrorist prisoners in England and Wales in a single secure unit, a proposal for a “British Alcatraz” that is prompting alarm among prison chiefs.





The idea would overturn 50 years of dispersing the most dangerous prisoners in the system and is expected to be backed by a review set up by the justice secretary, Michael Gove, to examine how the 130 convicted Islamist terrorists are dealt with behind bars.

Earlier this week, David Cameron gave a strong hint in a speech on prison reform that the option of a separate secure unit is being looked at. The prime minister said he was ready to consider major changes in the location of convicted terrorist prisoners to prevent them recruiting up to 1,000 current prisoners who have been identified as being at risk of extremist radicalisation.

“We will not stand by and watch people being radicalised like this while they are in the care of the state … And I want to be clear – I am prepared to consider major changes: from the imams we allow to preach in prison to changing the locations and methods for dealing with prisoners convicted of terrorism offences, if that is what is required,” Cameron said.

However, a leading counter-terror expert warned that bringing together all convicted Islamist prisoners in one “jail within a jail” risks creating a focal point for public protests.

Prof Peter Neumann said: “The trade-off is this: you want to separate terrorist prisoners in order to prevent them from radicalising others yet you don’t want to create a focal point for public protests – a ‘British Guantanamo’, however much of a misrepresentation that might be – or provide an opportunity for terrorist prisoners to create (or recreate) operational command structures inside prison that might not have existed outside.”

Since the 1960s terrorists incarcerated in England and Wales have been dispersed among six maximum security jails. They have then been regularly moved around the dispersal prisons to prevent long-term relationships building up between them.

Any of the current dispersal prisons could be designated to hold all convicted Islamist terrorists and converted to create a segregated terrorist unit or “jail within a jail” within their perimeter. They include Frankland near Durham, Full Sutton near York, Long Lartin in Worcestershire, Wakefield in West Yorkshire, Whitemoor in Cambridgeshire, and Belmarsh in south-east London.

Gove’s review is being led by Ian Acheson, a former prison governor and a senior Home Office official, who is understood to be actively considering recommending a separatist solution and holding convicted Islamist terrorists in one jail.

Downing Street is also understood to be interested in this approach, citing recent developments in France where Islamist terrorists have been concentrated together in isolation wings to prevent them radicalising the much larger Muslim prison population in French jails.

There is a simple solution. Every prisoner spends 24 hours a day in solitary confinement in a 5x7' cell, 365 days a year. He does not leave the cell under any circumstances unless he is fully restrained, hooded, and gagged, or fully sedated.

[wesw]

that sounds a bit cruel and unusual , jarlaxle.

a simple, fair military trial, quick conviction or aquittal, take em out back and shoot em if they are guilty.

if they are citizens they are traitors, if they are foreigners they are illegal enemy combatants.

bang goes the gavel, bang goes the enfield....

simple, cheap, fair

[Gob]

But it also shines a spotlight on a much wider issue that is causing widespread concern across government and beyond.

In recent years, the number of Muslim prisoners has increased dramatically. Ministry of Justice figures show a rise from 6,571 in 2004 to 12,255 a decade later, meaning that Muslims now account for almost 15 per cent of all inmates.

In high security jails, the figure is higher still — one in five; while in one Category A establishment, almost half are Muslims.

Taken on its own, the disproportionate numbers of Muslims being jailed is in itself cause for concern (Muslims comprise roughly 5 per cent of the population of England and Wales).

But what is particularly worrying the authorities is the potential it offers for radicalisation.

As the number of Islamist extremists locked up for terror offences increases, so they are finding fertile ground among fellow prisoners. Indeed, it is claimed that some are deliberately getting custodial sentences so that they can target this pool of disaffected young men.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z40BvFiBmL

[Bicycle Bill]

Reminds me of the quote from the movie, "The Great Escape", when the German camp commandant explains why so many incorrigible Allied prisoners were placed in the camp:
"We have in effect put all our rotten eggs in one basket.  And we intend to watch this basket carefully."

And we all know how that turned out, don't we?

-"BB"-

Most of them were caught and returned or caught and murdered. Only three got away.

yrs,
rubato

True enough.  But the plan originally was to have far more people get away — nearly 200 men — than actually did.  Who knows what would have happened if they had dug the tunnel far enough to reach the treeline and the larger complement had escaped, or if the weather and conditions — this was during one of the harshest winter in thirty years and the large amount of snow on the ground forced the escapees to have to use the roads rather than remain in the cover of woods and fields — would have been more conducive to travel?

And while you are correct in that only three managed to remain uncaught (one returning to England via Spain; the other two getting back to English territory via Sweden) the amount of disruption as the Germans had to divert manpower and resources into chasing down and recapturing the escapees cannot be discounted.

-"BB"-

[MajGenl.Meade]

Bill, Bill. Soon you'll be muttering into your pillow at night. "Resistance is futile. They should have just quietly died. Stalags, ghettos, what's the difference?"

[Bicycle Bill]

Bill, Bill. Soon you'll be muttering into your pillow at night. "Resistance is futile. They should have just quietly died. Stalags, ghettos, what's the difference?"

Meade, I think that your reply was meant to be addressed to rubato.  He's the one who pointed out the poor results-to-effort of "The Great Escape" from Stalag-Luft III.

I've already learned long ago that staunch, stubborn resistance is indeed futile.  A nail that sticks up is quickly hammered down again.  So unless you're willing to be just one more sheep in the flock of whichever shepherd happens to be in charge at any one given time, the key to surviving is a sort of passive resistance; firm yet yielding.  If a hurricane comes through it's gonna blow down damned near everything — a mighty oak tree that has stood for a century or more is nothing to Mother Nature's fury.  But the reeds and the grasses — and to a lesser degree the young trees, the sapling and the shoots — they bend and bow before the wind, they let the wind sweep over them, they lay low and let the fuss and furor pass by them ... and then, once it has been spent, they rise up and resume their place in nature's hierarchy, little the worse for wear, and ready to grow, expand, spread, and claim for their own the place where once stood the majestic oak.

-"BB"-

[wesw]

either that or some fat cow comes along, chews them up and shits them out upon their fellow grasses.....


some things are worth getting beat down for, even worth being killed for.

but I am a lonely voice these days....

live free or die.

[MajGenl.Meade]

Ah, no Bill - I was warning you of the possible rubato reaction.

[Jarlaxle]

Reminds me of the quote from the movie, "The Great Escape", when the German camp commandant explains why so many incorrigible Allied prisoners were placed in the camp:
"We have in effect put all our rotten eggs in one basket.  And we intend to watch this basket carefully."

And we all know how that turned out, don't we?

-"BB"-

Most of them were caught and returned or caught and murdered. Only three got away.

yrs,
rubato

True enough.  But the plan originally was to have far more people get away — nearly 200 men — than actually did.  Who knows what would have happened if they had dug the tunnel far enough to reach the treeline and the larger complement had escaped, or if the weather and conditions — this was during one of the harshest winter in thirty years and the large amount of snow on the ground forced the escapees to have to use the roads rather than remain in the cover of woods and fields — would have been more conducive to travel?

And while you are correct in that only three managed to remain uncaught (one returning to England via Spain; the other two getting back to English territory via Sweden) the amount of disruption as the Germans had to divert manpower and resources into chasing down and recapturing the escapees cannot be discounted.

-"BB"-

One thing that greatly disrupted it was the abrupt transfer of some of them (including several of the masterminds behind it) to another camp. It had been planned for summer, but was moved up due to concern that they would be discovered. Another problem was that the tree cover wasn't thick enough, because it was March.