You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby Burning Petard » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:46 pm

I give you my solitary justification for not impeaching POTUS:

President Mike Pence.

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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby Big RR » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:17 pm

That is not something to look forward to, but I have to think it would be an improvement on the current presideNt; who wOuldn't be?
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby ex-khobar Andy » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:20 pm

My nightmare too. I do have a question - in the vanishingly unlikely event that Trump is impeached and convicted, would there be anything stopping him from standing again in 2020?
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby Scooter » Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:33 pm

My understanding is that upon conviction, the Senate can also vote to bar the person from holding any federal office.
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby Big RR » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:02 pm

I think you're right there, but it does appear this would have to be paired with removal from office.
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby Scooter » Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:42 pm

Removal from office comes automatically with conviction (Article III, Section 4)
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby Big RR » Tue Sep 24, 2019 7:47 pm

Well that brings us back to the Clinton discussion--could the Senate convict and then censure him? There were good arguments on both sides, but I lean toward there being no right to censure in an impeachment trial (although I imagine the Senate could censure in a separate action.
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby ex-khobar Andy » Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:51 pm

Scooter wrote:Removal from office comes automatically with conviction (Article III, Section 4)


According to Wikipedia (my underlining):

Conviction removes the defendant from office. Following conviction, the Senate may vote to further punish the individual by barring him or her from holding future federal office, elected or appointed. However, conviction does not extend to further punishment, for example, loss of pension. After conviction by the Senate, "the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law" in the regular federal or state courts.


but also

Clause 7: Judgment in cases of impeachment; Punishment on conviction

Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.

If any officer is convicted on impeachment, he or she is immediately removed from office, and may be barred from holding any public office in the future. No other punishments may be inflicted pursuant to the impeachment proceeding, but the convicted party remains liable to trial and punishment in the courts for civil and criminal charges.


I suppose, like the Second Amendment, the punctuation allows a couple of interpretations. That comma after the word 'Office' (Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States . . .) implies that removal from Office and disqualification to hold (etc) are to be considered differently.
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby Scooter » Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:29 pm

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White privilege is a thing.

What goes on in a woman's uterus is none of your fucking business.

Equal rights for others does not mean less rights for you. It's not pie.
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby Bicycle Bill » Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:10 am

With regard to Greta Thunberg and her right to attempt to influence policy on global warming despite her young age, all I can do is quote Bob Dylan:
"You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby BoSoxGal » Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:42 am

Does everyone here remember Samantha Smith? I don’t recall anyone tearing her to shreds when she became an ambassador for peace with the USSR at age 10. But we didn’t have the ugly internet then, and she was an American. Maybe American men wouldn’t attack Greta so horribly if she was a home grown climate change activist.

Oh wait, AOC . . .
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby ex-khobar Andy » Thu Sep 26, 2019 3:24 am

I have to wonder whether Justin Murphy (Scooter's post) thinks that Donald Trump has the 'maturity to guide global policy-making.'

Clearly Justin Murphy does not have the maturity to be trusted with a mobile phone. Unfortunately, there's a lot of that about.
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby ex-khobar Andy » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:07 pm

I missed this one first time around.

Some bright spark at the WH emailed the Ukraine talking points to the Democrats. Well, we've all been there (nope, not really) but it's worth following this up a little.

As you can imagine the talking points (let's call them TP for short - seems appropriate) err on the side of the president.

The real scandal here is that leaks about a secondhand account of the President's confidential call with a foreign leader triggered a media frenzy of false accusations against the President and forced the President to release the transcript


Stuff like that. Astoundingly the TP omit mention of the "Nice country you've got there, shame if anything were to happen to it" remarks by the President. (Actually he didn't say that and I can prove it. Any suggestion that the President has a passing familiarity with the subjunctive is a base calumny.)

Ms Tori Symonds then sent a "sorry I sent you that email; please don't read it: I'm recalling it" note to the Dems. Again astoundingly (you just can't trust those guys) some of them read the TP and even responded to Ms Symonds. Ever curious, I followed up.

Ms Symonds' Linked In page is worth a look. Helpfully, Linked In provides a place where you can list those skills which will most appeal to an prospective employer (sometimes) or with which you wish to impress your friends (so I am told). I have copied Ms Symonds' 'Learn the skills Tori has' section below. (I will be posting to my own Linked In page that I have learned how to take a screenshot on my Mac and how to post a portion of that screenshot on a BBS - these are skills of which I can truly boast.)

Image

I thought this thread was an appropriate place to post this. I am also good at writing emails and, on present evidence, rather better at it that Ms Symonds. I will have a resume into the WH before COB today: it seems like a decent gig and I'm told the pay is good.
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby Lord Jim » Wed Oct 02, 2019 3:52 pm

Gee, I thought I was kidding when I talked about machine gun nests along the border...

Trump suggested shooting migrants in the legs, spoke of gator-filled border moat: report

President Donald Trump suggested to his advisers earlier this year that soldiers should shoot migrants in the legs to slow them down, and that the border wall should be electrified with spikes on top and fortified with an alligator-infested moat, according to a new report.

The New York Times late Tuesday published an article adapted from an upcoming book by two of its reporters, Mike Shear and Julie Hirschfield Davis, titled “Border Wars: Inside Trump’s Assault on Immigration,” due to be published next week. The report details extreme proposals by Trump — including shutting down the entire U.S.-Mexico border within a matter of hours — at the height of the immigration crisis this spring.

Privately, the president had often talked about fortifying a border wall with a water-filled trench, stocked with snakes or alligators, prompting aides to seek a cost estimate. He wanted the wall electrified, with spikes on top that could pierce human flesh. After publicly suggesting that soldiers shoot migrants if they threw rocks, the president backed off when his staff told him that was illegal. But later in a meeting, aides recalled, he suggested that they shoot migrants in the legs to slow them down. That’s not allowed either, they told him.’

-Adaptation from ‘Border Wars: Inside Trump’s Assault on Immigration’


The report, which the Times said was based on interviews with more than a dozen Trump administration officials who had direct knowledge of the events, also detailed how then-Homeland Security chief Kirstjen Nielsen was pushed out of her position and how Trump’s senior adviser Stephen Miller maneuvered to clean house at Homeland Security, replacing officials who objected to Trump’s demands with more loyal hard-liners.

“Lou Dobbs hates you, Ann Coulter hates you, [and] you’re making me look bad,” Trump reportedly told Nielsen last spring.

“The happiest he had been with Ms. Nielsen was a few months earlier, when American border agents had fired tear gas into Mexico to try to stop migrants from crossing into the United States. Human rights organizations condemned the move, but Mr. Trump loved it. More often, though, she drew the president’s scorn,” the report said.


https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump ... 2019-10-01
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby Scooter » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:52 pm

Trump defends abandoning the Kurds by saying they didn't help the US in WWII

President Donald Trump on Wednesday defended his decision to abandon the Kurds to a Turkish military incursion in Syria by saying they didn't help the US during World War II.

This came amid reports Turkish ground troops were crossing the border into Syria following airstrikes that began earlier in the day.

"They didn't help us in the Second World War, they didn't help us with Normandy," Trump said of the Kurds. He added, "With all of that being said, we like the Kurds." (I'm sure that will be of great comfort to them as they are being slaughtered)

Earlier on Wednesday, Trump in a statement released by the White House said he did not endorse the Turkish military operation and thought it was a "bad idea." But he did not reference the Kurds once, nor did he signal any immediate response from the US to thwart Turkey's actions.

The Trump administration on Sunday abruptly announced the US was withdrawing troops stationed in northeast Syria ahead of a Turkish operation.

The move has been broadly condemned in Washington, including by top congressional Republicans and former Trump administration officials, as many feel Trump paved the way for Turkey to go after key US allies.

The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) bore the brunt of the US-led campaign against ISIS, losing roughly 11,000 fighters in the process.

Ahead of the Trump administration's announcement, Kurdish forces had recently dismantled defensive positions along the Turkey-Syria border under assurances from the US it would not allow a Turkish assault. The SDF described Trump's decision to withdraw troops as a "stab in the back" and made clear it felt betrayed by the US.

Shortly after his reference to WWII on Wednesday, when asked by reporters whether he felt the Syria retreat and treatment of the Kurds sent a poor message to other potential US allies, Trump said, "Alliances are very easy." The president said it "won't be" hard for the US to form new partnerships. (oh yeah? should be interesting to test that theory)

Trump also said "our alliances" have "taken tremendous advantage of us." (ah yes, the "foreign policy is a zero sum game" school of diplomacy)

But a number of congressional lawmakers and former US officials have expressed concerns about the message sent to allies or future partners by the Trump administration's Syria retreat.

Trump's former top envoy in the fight against ISIS, Brett McGurk, was particularly critical of the president.

McGurk in a tweet on Monday said, "Donald Trump is not a Commander-in-Chief. He makes impulsive decisions with no knowledge or deliberation. He sends military personnel into harm's way with no backing. He blusters and then leaves our allies exposed when adversaries call his bluff or he confronts a hard phone call."

Similarly, Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a key ally for Trump in Congress who sits on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, on Monday tweeted, "By abandoning the Kurds we have sent the most dangerous signal possible - America is an unreliable ally and it's just a matter of time before China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea act out in dangerous ways." (I'll give Graham credit for belatedly recognizing it, now what does he plan to do about it?)
White privilege is a thing.

What goes on in a woman's uterus is none of your fucking business.

Equal rights for others does not mean less rights for you. It's not pie.
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby ex-khobar Andy » Wed Oct 09, 2019 10:59 pm

Trump's former top envoy in the fight against ISIS, Brett McGurk, was particularly critical of the president.

McGurk in a tweet on Monday said, "Donald Trump is not a Commander-in-Chief. He makes impulsive decisions with no knowledge or deliberation. He sends military personnel into harm's way with no backing. He blusters and then leaves our allies exposed when adversaries call his bluff or he confronts a hard phone call."

Similarly, Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, a key ally for Trump in Congress who sits on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, on Monday tweeted, "By abandoning the Kurds we have sent the most dangerous signal possible - America is an unreliable ally and it's just a matter of time before China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea act out in dangerous ways." (I'll give Graham credit for belatedly recognizing it, now what does he plan to do about it?)


In short, Trump is remarkably thick. He is an industrial strength idiot. There is no other case to make.

Edited to correct a typo.
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby Scooter » Wed Oct 09, 2019 11:54 pm

Trump defends diplomat's wife involved in car crash that killed British teenager: 'It happens'

Donald Trump has defended the wife of a US diplomat accused of killing a British teenager in a road accident, suggesting it is difficult to drive on the other side of the road and that “it happens”.

Speaking at the White House after a conversation with prime minister Boris Johnson, during which he apparently rejected a request to consider waiving the woman’s diplomatic immunity and her returning to Britain to face the police, the president said he wanted to try and bring about “healing”.

Mr Trump said the US would shortly be speaking to the woman, and that there were many Americans who sympathised with the plight of teenager’s parents, who he said was killed in a “terrible accident”.

Yet he also appeared to back the diplomat’s wife, Anne Sacoolas, saying that it could be difficult “driving on the opposite side of the road”.

“The woman was driving on the wrong side of the road. That can happen,” he said. “Those are the opposite side of the road. I won’t say it ever happened to me, but it but it did.”

He added: “When you get used to driving on our system and then you’re all of a sudden on the other system where you’re driving it happens. It happens. You have to be careful.”

Mr Trump comments came after a call on Wednesday with Mr Johnson to discuss the case of the diplomat, who left the country after being involved in an accident close to RAF Croughton, a British military base used by the US Air Force. The teenager had been on a motorcycle.

The young man’s parents, who recently met with British foreign secretary Dominic Raab, have said they plan to start civil action against Ms Sacoolas.

Mr Trump did not specify what he intended to do try and help the family of the British teenager, but said officials would speak to the woman and “see what we can come up with”.

He said the confusion was understandable but “two wonderful parents have lost their son”.

In a statement issued by Downing Street, a spokesman confirmed the two leaders had discussed “the tragic death of Harry Dunn”.

“The prime minister urged the president to reconsider the US position so the individual involved can return to the UK, co-operate with police and allow Harry’s family to receive justice.

“The president said he was fully aware of the case and deeply saddened by what has happened, and he expressed his condolences to Harry’s parents. The leaders agreed to work together to find a way forward as soon as possible.”

Mr Raab met the teenager’s mother Charlotte Charles, and father Tim Dunn, on Wednesday afternoon after having talks with US ambassador Woody Johnson on Tuesday.

Speaking after the meeting, the 19-year-old’s mother told reporters she felt “let down by both governments”.

Ms Charles said: “I can’t really see the point as to why we were invited to see Dominic Raab. We are no further forward than where we were this time last week.

“Part of me is feeling like it was just a publicity stunt on the UK Government side to show they are trying to help.” Mr Raab said he shared the “frustration“ felt by the family and vowed to continue to ”press the US authorities“ into co-operating with the UK investigation.

“I share the frustration of Harry’s mother and father,” said Mr Raab. “They have lost their son and the justice process is not being allowed to properly run its course.”

The family’s lawyer and spokesman Radd Seiger, said the family would be willing to talk with Mr Trump about the issue and confirmed they plan to travel to the US.

“Meet us. Let’s have a chat. Nobody wants to litigate,” he said.

Mr Seiger said they were engaging lawyers to take a civil case against Mrs Sacoolas in America.

“Our position is that she doesn’t have immunity and that waivers are always granted in these circumstances,” Mr Seiger told reporters in Westminster.

“Now we can disclose to you we have brought lawyers on board…We are going to Washington soon to help us get that justice for Harry.”
White privilege is a thing.

What goes on in a woman's uterus is none of your fucking business.

Equal rights for others does not mean less rights for you. It's not pie.
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby BoSoxGal » Thu Oct 10, 2019 12:16 am

https://www.jacobinmag.com/2019/08/kurdish-freedom-struggle-joey-lawrence-portraits


I wish I had resources and better health, I would gladly give my life to the worthy cause of eliminating the stain on our nation.
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby ex-khobar Andy » Thu Oct 10, 2019 3:32 am

Apparently part of Trump's 'reasoning' is that the Kurds weren't a lot of help in WW2 and specifically at Normandy.

Come to that, there weren't many of Trump's family at Normandy. Nor were there N Koreans, Chinese, or Turks. My father was there.

Maybe this latest demonstration of world-class stupidity will finally convince sufficient of his supporters to say "Enough!"
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Re: You really, really, REALLY couldn't make this shit up

Postby Burning Petard » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:00 pm

I have a nagging question about the 'bad idea on twitter" up above. Old enuff to rape? What a kind of thinking is that about? Is there some lower age at which when non-consensual sexual activity occurs, it ain't rape? What is it the minimum age? I know there is a maximum age--if the victim is dead, before the act, ain't rape, but some other disgusting activity.

snailgate

Later return to the recent discussion. I saw on Newsy tv this morning POTUS giving a very sad description of the terrible emotions that parents go thru when their dead child is returned from battle via the Dover AFB. Very sad. He had to get our wonderful troops out of Syria to end this awful scene at Dover.

Seventeen American military total. have died in our efforts in Syria. Within 24 hours after their efforts began, Turkey bragged that they have killed 'hundreds'.
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