2020 Election results

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Long Run
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Long Run »

Clinton joined the Jill Stein recount in Wisconsin. The Michigan recount was started and quietly dropped. The Pennsylvania recount that never got going due to legal failings. The effort to get Electoral College voters to change their votes. The independent counsel probe plus hearings, plus a full-on mega investigation by nearly every media source, which all came up with nothing substantive (other than the general incompetence we already knew about). The go-nowhere impeachment show. The 25th Amendment blather (expect to see that one trotted out for Biden, btw). These were all long shots and publicity stunts. But it was the sentiment of rank and file Democrats that I am referring to. I personally know many smart Democrats who thought each of these offered viable chances to overturn the election. Research shows that over the last few election cycles if a voter's candidate won, they have more confidence the voting was legit; if their candidate lost, they have less confidence the voting was legit. The W or L has much more bearing than the R or D.

Darren
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Darren »

Econoline wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:41 pm
Darren wrote:
Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:49 pm
To everyone else, money talks, bull shit walks.

Who wants to bet Biden will win after the audits/recounts are finished and lawsuits are settled?

I'm in for any amount up to $100. Don't be bashful people.
:ok Okay, I'm in for $100, payable to the American Civil Liberties Union.
Accepted!
Thank you RBG wherever you are!

Darren
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Darren »

Have I not acknowledged any bets including that Trump takes Pennsylvania?
Thank you RBG wherever you are!

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Sue U
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Sue U »

Long Run wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:20 pm
Clinton joined the Jill Stein recount in Wisconsin.
After Stein filed, with the Clinton campaign explicitly saying they would not have sought a recount themselves because there was no evidence hacking, fraud or other interference.
Long Run wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:20 pm
The Michigan recount was started and quietly dropped.
Again, this was not Clinton and the Democrats but Stein, and it wasn't "quietly dropped." Stein lost a lawsuit brought by the GOP to stop the recount, arguing she did not qualify as an "aggrieved party" under Michigan law because she only got 1% of the vote.
Long Run wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:20 pm
The Pennsylvania recount that never got going due to legal failings.
And again, this was Stein, not Clinton and the Democrats. Stein filed suit in federal court to force a recount because she missed the deadline to request one through the Commonwealth's administrative process. EDPA tossed the suit.
Long Run wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:20 pm
The effort to get Electoral College voters to change their votes.
There was no such "effort," only media speculation whether this could even be a thing.

So no, unlike what we are now seeing from Trump and the GOP, there was in fact absolutely no whining feet-stamping hissy fit by Clinton and the Democrats in the wake of "losing" an election by 77,000 votes in three states that tipped the Electoral College, while winning the popular vote by nearly 3 million. And again, here Trump has lost the popular vote by more than 6 million this time and lost PA, MI and WI by well over 200,000.
Long Run wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:20 pm
The independent counsel probe plus hearings, plus a full-on mega investigation by nearly every media source, which all came up with nothing substantive (other than the general incompetence we already knew about). The go-nowhere impeachment show. The 25th Amendment blather (expect to see that one trotted out for Biden, btw). These were all long shots and publicity stunts. But it was the sentiment of rank and file Democrats that I am referring to. I personally know many smart Democrats who thought each of these offered viable chances to overturn the election. Research shows that over the last few election cycles if a voter's candidate won, they have more confidence the voting was legit; if their candidate lost, they have less confidence the voting was legit. The W or L has much more bearing than the R or D.
If there was "nothing to see here," why did so many of Trump's campaign associates end up in the pokey? And do you seriously have any doubt that if Obama had abused his office the way Trump has that he wouldn't have been impeached AND convicted by an outraged Republican Congress? Trump didn't avoid conviction because he was "innocent," he avoided conviction because the jury refused to look at the evidence and instead decided it would tie its political fortunes to Trump. Despite the Trumpist spin, impeachment was not merely an attempt to "overturn the election," but it was an effort to force some accountability for gross abuses of power. And now the only thing Trump and the GOP have learned is that there are no consequences for attacking and undermining the principles and institutions of American democracy.
GAH!

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Econoline
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Econoline »

Darren wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:13 pm
Have I not acknowledged any bets including that Trump takes Pennsylvania?
When you made that comment I asked if you were offering an additional, separate bet on the Pennsylvania outcome but you didn't reply. I guess it's too late now, and anyway I would feel guilty about taking any more of your money at this point (even though Planned Parenthood or 350.org probably could use an extra $100 ;) ).



ETA: what Sue said.^^^^^ :ok
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

Darren
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Darren »

Econoline wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:56 pm
Darren wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:13 pm
Have I not acknowledged any bets including that Trump takes Pennsylvania?
When you made that comment I asked if you were offering an additional, separate bet on the Pennsylvania outcome but you didn't reply. I guess it's too late now, and anyway I would feel guilty about taking any more of your money at this point (even though Planned Parenthood or 350.org probably could use an extra $100 ;) ).



ETA: what Sue said.^^^^^ :ok
I'll take the bet for $100.
Thank you RBG wherever you are!

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Econoline
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Econoline »

Really? Well...I'm not greedy, but I do like to be generous to organizations that do good work and need money. You're on.
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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BoSoxGal
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by BoSoxGal »

Sue U wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:20 pm
And now the only thing Trump and the GOP have learned is that there are no consequences for attacking and undermining the principles and institutions of American democracy.
Well, other than 6 million popular votes and 74 electoral votes. Those are big consequences that 45* is having a hard time accepting.

If the Republicans keep being such cunts playing along with him, they might face some serious consequences in Georgia in January, too.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

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Guinevere
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Guinevere »

Sue U wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:20 pm
Long Run wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:20 pm
Clinton joined the Jill Stein recount in Wisconsin.
After Stein filed, with the Clinton campaign explicitly saying they would not have sought a recount themselves because there was no evidence hacking, fraud or other interference.
Long Run wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:20 pm
The Michigan recount was started and quietly dropped.
Again, this was not Clinton and the Democrats but Stein, and it wasn't "quietly dropped." Stein lost a lawsuit brought by the GOP to stop the recount, arguing she did not qualify as an "aggrieved party" under Michigan law because she only got 1% of the vote.
Long Run wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:20 pm
The Pennsylvania recount that never got going due to legal failings.
And again, this was Stein, not Clinton and the Democrats. Stein filed suit in federal court to force a recount because she missed the deadline to request one through the Commonwealth's administrative process. EDPA tossed the suit.
Long Run wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:20 pm
The effort to get Electoral College voters to change their votes.
There was no such "effort," only media speculation whether this could even be a thing.

So no, unlike what we are now seeing from Trump and the GOP, there was in fact absolutely no whining feet-stamping hissy fit by Clinton and the Democrats in the wake of "losing" an election by 77,000 votes in three states that tipped the Electoral College, while winning the popular vote by nearly 3 million. And again, here Trump has lost the popular vote by more than 6 million this time and lost PA, MI and WI by well over 200,000.
Long Run wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:20 pm
The independent counsel probe plus hearings, plus a full-on mega investigation by nearly every media source, which all came up with nothing substantive (other than the general incompetence we already knew about). The go-nowhere impeachment show. The 25th Amendment blather (expect to see that one trotted out for Biden, btw). These were all long shots and publicity stunts. But it was the sentiment of rank and file Democrats that I am referring to. I personally know many smart Democrats who thought each of these offered viable chances to overturn the election. Research shows that over the last few election cycles if a voter's candidate won, they have more confidence the voting was legit; if their candidate lost, they have less confidence the voting was legit. The W or L has much more bearing than the R or D.
If there was "nothing to see here," why did so many of Trump's campaign associates end up in the pokey? And do you seriously have any doubt that if Obama had abused his office the way Trump has that he wouldn't have been impeached AND convicted by an outraged Republican Congress? Trump didn't avoid conviction because he was "innocent," he avoided conviction because the jury refused to look at the evidence and instead decided it would tie its political fortunes to Trump. Despite the Trumpist spin, impeachment was not merely an attempt to "overturn the election," but it was an effort to force some accountability for gross abuses of power. And now the only thing Trump and the GOP have learned is that there are no consequences for attacking and undermining the principles and institutions of American democracy.
ALL OF THIS

I was just coming back to respond to this pile of crapola - glad you got there first.

As a volunteer Clinton voter protection attorney I was able to listen to calls on the subject of recount — and there was no legal action by the campaign or the DNC.

On the electoral college, the push for delegates to change their votes came from the Right and the Never Trumpers, as I recall, not the Democrats.
“Women belong in all places where decisions are being made.“ ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg

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Sue U
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Sue U »

Oh my. . .
In this action, the Trump Campaign and the Individual Plaintiffs (collectively, the “Plaintiffs”) seek to discard millions of votes legally cast by Pennsylvanians from all corners – from Greene County to Pike County, andeverywhere in between. In other words, Plaintiffs ask this Court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters. This Court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated. One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens.

That has not happened. Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence. In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws, and institutions demand more. At bottom, Plaintiffs have failed to meet their burden to state a claim upon which relief may be granted. Therefore, I grant Defendants' motions and dismiss Plaintiffs’ action with prejudice.
Oh and J Brann is just getting started here (34 more pages plus an Order to GFY.)
Last edited by Sue U on Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
GAH!

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Econoline
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Econoline »

Image
People who are wrong are just as sure they're right as people who are right. The only difference is, they're wrong.
God @The Tweet of God

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Joe Guy
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Joe Guy »

I agree. All week I thought Biden had won the election and then later in the week all of a sudden I was thinking about the fact that he had won the election. I felt as though I had been through a week where one day followed another until all the days of the week actually passed and a new week was about to begin.

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Bicycle Bill
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Bicycle Bill »

Sue U wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 3:32 am
Oh and J Brann is just getting started here (34 more pages plus an Order to GFY.)
Since I assume that 'GFY' is text-speak for "Go F*** Yourself", I'd love to see the actual ruling if for no other reason than to know just what the precise format and legal terms are required in such a document/court order to make it legally binding.
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-"BB"-
Yes, I suppose I could agree with you ... but then we'd both be wrong, wouldn't we?

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Sue U
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Sue U »

Bicycle Bill wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:53 am
Since I assume that 'GFY' is text-speak for "Go F*** Yourself", I'd love to see the actual ruling if for no other reason than to know just what the precise format and legal terms are required in such a document/court order to make it legally binding.
GFY Order here. Opinion is at the link provided in the post above.
Last edited by Sue U on Mon Nov 23, 2020 6:08 pm, edited 3 times in total.
GAH!

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Scooter
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Scooter »

That's the closest one can get in judgespeak to saying:

1. Why the fuck did you make me waste my time with this steaming pile of bullshit?

2. You're an asshole for doing so.

3. Go fuck yourself.
White privilege doesn't mean your life isn't hard. It means your skin colour isn't making it harder.

What goes on in a woman's uterus is none of your fucking business.

Equal rights for others does not mean less rights for you. It's not pie.

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Thank you Scooter (or should I call you Goon?) - I had been trying to figure out a succinct summary of the ruling but I see you've got there first.

Darren
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Darren »

Scooter wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:27 am
That's the closest one can get in judgespeak to saying:

1. Why the fuck did you make me waste my time with this steaming pile of bullshit?

2. You're an asshole for doing so.

3. Go fuck yourself.
Or ... "Sorry. I can't help you. I will issue a quick ruling to expedite your lawsuit on its way up the Supreme Court." ;)
Thank you RBG wherever you are!

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Scooter
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Scooter »

Yeah, no, not how it works, but I understand that you need to hold onto the dream.
White privilege doesn't mean your life isn't hard. It means your skin colour isn't making it harder.

What goes on in a woman's uterus is none of your fucking business.

Equal rights for others does not mean less rights for you. It's not pie.

Darren
Posts: 1720
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2015 12:57 am

Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Darren »

Scooter wrote:
Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:32 pm
Yeah, no, not how it works, but I understand that you need to hold onto the dream.
WOW! I didn't know appeals weren't allowed.
Thank you RBG wherever you are!

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Scooter
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Re: 2020 Election results

Post by Scooter »

Appeals are allowed if they have any merit (which none of these cases has demonstrated thus far).

But judges don't write rulings with the intent of having them reversed, which is what your nonsensical "interpretation" would mean.
White privilege doesn't mean your life isn't hard. It means your skin colour isn't making it harder.

What goes on in a woman's uterus is none of your fucking business.

Equal rights for others does not mean less rights for you. It's not pie.

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