USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

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ex-khobar Andy
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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Big RR wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2026 1:35 pm
But that’s still better than the alternative of them getting a nuclear weapon. Or is there someone here who would actually argue that Iran should have nukes?
Well, being that they have been "just a few weeks away" from getting a nuclear weapon for the last 25 years, I'm not all that concerned. IF they wanted one, they'd have one.
Total agreement. Making a nuclear weapon is not that hard: the Manhattan project did it with 1940s technology; the N Koreans did it a decade or so ago abetted by a Pakistani expert. Iranians certainly possess the knowhow - I suspect that those who do know how to do it have been dragging their heels a little just as Heisenberg has long been rumored to have done.

Their main aim, if they had one, would be for local consumption. They are not, and never have been, foolish enough to take on the Israelis or the Americans. If they had a nuclear capability they would wave it about "I'm the boss here!" in Big Swinging Dick mode.

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Sue U
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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

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liberty wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2026 1:46 am
I think the U.S. military has achieved what it intended in terms of weakening Iran’s military capability. Of course, it’s just ‘mowing the grass’, it only keeps them down for a while, hopefully five or ten years. But that’s still better than the alternative of them getting a nuclear weapon. Or is there someone here who would actually argue that Iran should have nukes?
Your "take" as usual is idiotic. As I said in another thread, the only thing this war has accomplished is convincing Iran that it legitimately needs a nuclear weapon as a deterrent to US and Israeli attack, or at least providing that excuse for the ruling faction hardliners. Do you know how to stop Iran from developing nuclear weapons? You prove that it's unnecessary because you have a region at peace, with interdependent economies that benefit all.

Netanyahu precipitated this war for his own domestic political reasons, some of which have an internal logic but were made more exigent by the Hamas attack on Oct. 7, 2023. Iran is the major state funding source of Hamas and Hezbollah, which do pose genuine threats to Israel's security (here I am not going to get into why they exist in the first place; I am just looking at today's realities). To the extent Hamas and Hezbollah act as agents of Iranian policy, it makes sense to attempt regime change at the top while eliminating the more immediate local threats. But it is apparent that the war in Gaza hasn't eradicated Hamas nor will the war in Lebanon likely end Hezbollah, and with the IRGC and hardliners now firmly in control of Iran -- and Trump cutting a deal with them to get himself out of his own domestic political disaster -- Netanyahu's effort has been a failure all around. We are not just back to where we were in February; literally everything is now substantially worse.
GAH!

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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

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I am ready to argue that Iran should NOT have Nukes. But also ready to argue that France, the Brits, North Korea, and particularly DJ Trump certainly should not have Nukes. I think it is also a dirty little secret that Israel has had them but not very many, probably as long ago as Pakistan. Iran certainly could have had them years ago, just by buying them from Ukraine or Russia black market weapon dealers. The problem with that last option is one the USofA is dealing with now--how to keep the really old individual weapons functional but not unstable.

snailgate.

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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

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Many aspects of modern Iranian society, such as women’s education, industrial development, and scientific progress, can be traced back to the reforms implemented under the Shah; his government pushed Iran rapidly into the modern era, even when parts of society resisted those changes. Today, it is likely that some, or even many, of the people who supported the 1979 revolution look back with regret, given the restrictions that followed. Iran is now governed by a fundamentalist Shi’a leadership and its supporters, who represent only about 15 percent of the population, while the vast majority of Iranians hold far more diverse and modern views and oppose the government because of the oppression they experience. So, who said that a minority can't control a majority...Sue?
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

I think someone's playing with AI . . . or perhaps playing dumb most of the time and just slipped up.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Lib (or someone purporting to be lib) told us
Today, it is likely that some, or even many, of the people who supported the 1979 revolution look back with regret, given the restrictions that followed.
I had an Iranian girlfriend in 1966-7 - definitely the time of the Shah, and I can confirm much more liberated that would be seemly these days. The Shah was an authoritarian monster, but 'frying pan meet fire' is a very old story.

We can do anything with hindsight but I (and probably she, and I hope she survived) would love to know how Iran would have turned out had we allowed Mossadegh to take office as PM in 1953.

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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

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MajGenl.Meade wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2026 8:18 pm
I think someone's playing with AI . . . or perhaps playing dumb most of the time and just slipped up.
If one wishes to communicate, one has a responsibility to do so in a way that the receiver can accurately interpret the message. So what does this mean? “Playing dumb most of the time and just slipped up?” And I can assure you, I do not have to play at being dumb; I have it down to a science, but at least I am honest.

Some of my mistakes in my lifetime are monumental, and some I will regret for the rest of my life. But I think that’s just the nature of life for an honest person.
Last edited by liberty on Sun Apr 12, 2026 2:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

I do not have to play at being dumb; I have it down to a science, but at least I am honest.
:ok :lol:
Bravo!
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

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If Iran doesn't open that strait, then we'll close it down er er er er er
President Donald Trump says the US Navy will "blockade any and all ships" trying to enter or leave the Strait of Hormuz - a vital shipping route
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Joe Guy
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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

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Trump's plan for making Iran great again....

The solution to Iran blocking ships from passing through the Strait of Hormuz is for the US to block ships from passing through the Strait of Hormuz. And although the US military has completely wiped out all of Iran's defensive capabilities, it could do more damage to the people of Iran if Trump feels like it. And the reason he sent our military there in the first place was to free the people of Iran from their evil leader, whose son has taken over because we killed his father.

So much winning.....

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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

Post by MajGenl.Meade »

To be fair, all the ships that won't pay $2million will be stopped by Iran.

The ships that do pay Iran $2million will be stopped by the USA

So it's kind of an international joint venture; cooperation writ large. Seems like a war-ending deal to me????????
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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Joe Guy
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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

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I'm sure Trump has it all figured out. The US is in good hands. He's playing 4 dimensional chess in the Middle East and the genius of the strategy in his plan is not something non-maga people like us are able to grasp.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

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I mentioned earlier in the thread my admiration for Iranian film, and this morning this Jacobin article popped in my feed so I thought I’d share it here:

A Tribute to Iran’s Soulful and Revolutionary Cinema
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Scooter
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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

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Jumping in to defend Trump's attacks on the Pope, Mike Johnson decided the best way to do that was to attempt to school the Pope on the Just War Doctrine. Johnson believes that the Pope, who, let us recall, was the global head of the Order of St. Augustine and has a doctoral degree in canon law from the Pontifical University of St. Thomas Aquinas, lacks an understanding of the doctrine that was developed largely by.... St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas. :lol: :lol: :lol: :loon :loon :loon :lol: :lol: :lol:

"When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime."

-- Thomas Paine

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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

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The same day Johnson preached about the “just war doctrine,” the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops issued a statement clarifying the theory and warned that the pope was not merely offering theological opinions when he spoke.

“A constant tenet of that thousand-year tradition is a nation can only legitimately take up the sword ‘in self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed,’” they said in a statement. “That is, to be a just war it must be a defense against another who actively wages war, which is what the Holy Father actually said: ‘He does not listen to the prayers of those who wage war.’”
And let's not forget Couch-Shagger Vance advised the Pope to be "careful" when discussing matters of theology. Bet Leo will consider his religious ideas with greater care from now on - in case Fras. Johnson and/or Vance are forced to correct him.

Oh. Maybe not . . .
Pope Leo has criticised leaders who spend billions on wars and said the world was "being ravaged by a handful of tyrants" in unusually forceful comments during a visit to Cameroon. The pontiff blasted those he said had manipulated "the very name of God" for their own gain, while touring a region ravaged by a deadly insurgency.
For Christianity, by identifying truth with faith, must teach-and, properly understood, does teach-that any interference with the truth is immoral. A Christian with faith has nothing to fear from the facts

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BoSoxGal
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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

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Sue U wrote:
Fri Apr 10, 2026 2:13 pm
BoSoxGal wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2026 5:36 pm
I no longer have any of the feelings I used to have for Israel. I don’t believe I’m antisemitic, but I no longer have any automatic sympathy for Jewish people either. I do believe that Satanyahu and his supporters are doing immense damage to the state of Israel and the Jewish people globally, and making new antisemites every day. It’s a fucking tragedy.
You are certainly not the only one who feels this way.

A view from Israel (from Ha'aretz):
Opinion
From 'Total Victory' to Strategic Failure: Cease-fire Leaves Israel Weaker and Iran Stronger

What began with sweeping promises of regime change and the destruction of Iran's nuclear capabilities ends in a fragile cease-fire, mounting losses, and a profound erosion of Israel's strategic position

Uri Misgav

April 08, 2026

U.S. President Donald Trump's infantile tweets, only a few hours after he had promised a "whole civilization will die," is a sign that it's all over. The temporary cease-fire will become a permanent one. Trump is already talking about "big money," a golden age and world peace. The overgrown child has lost his patience and interest, moving on to his next toy (Greenland? Cuba?). A person with a record of bankruptcies has chosen to cut his political and financial losses, explaining that "Iran can start the reconstruction process." And what about reconstructing Israel?

It was and remains a disastrous war that was dishonest in its aims. Two reckless psychopaths have drowned the region in blood, fire and smoke, plunging the world into a global energy crisis. Crazy Trump thought, or was led to believe, that it would take three days. At the end of 40 nightmarish days and sleepless nights, it's obvious that none of the declared and megalomaniac objectives of the war have been achieved. Not the nuclear program's destruction, the end of the ballistic missile threat or regime change.

The big winner is the military junta of the Revolutionary Guards, which has taken control of Iran, replacing the ayatollahs. It will now follow an even tougher line against the West and obviously against the poor Iranian people, with the pathos-filled concern for their welfare being replaced with "blasting Iran into oblivion," "damage to infrastructure," and "creating conditions" for a future regime change.

Now, the prevailing witticism is that the war ended with the opening of the Strait of Hormuz, which was open before the war. But this too is inaccurate. Trump has granted an unprecedented recognition to the Revolutionary Guards by acknowledging their right to safeguard passage through the Strait. Iran's status has grown. It withstood a combined assault initiated by "Little Satan" and "Great Satan," overcoming them despite its military and aerial inferiority.

Israel's situation, in contrast, has incalculably worsened. Fatalities, injuries, wrecked buildings, a routine of sirens and bomb shelters, a crumbling economy, an education system on hold, Ben-Gurion Airport shuttered. And for what? Never mind the harsh blow to the north and its brave residents, who were just beginning to pick up the pieces from the previous war, only to discover that Hezbollah had not "evaporated" or been "set back by years" but on the contrary, had been rebuilt.

The wisdom, pragmatism and moderation possessed by the founders of Israel have been replaced in the "Bibi-stan" era by messianic arrogance, lack of strategic planning and an endless fascination with tactical operations (pagers, the assassination of leaders and commanders). The defense strategy embraced by David Ben-Gurion and his followers was based on short wars, transferring the battles to enemy territory and rapid victories translating into diplomatic achievements.

Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, whose mouthpieces dared at the start of the war to compare him to Ben-Gurion and Winston Churchill, has consolidated a different conception: prolonged wars, held over the heads of Israel's home front, neither ending in victory nor contributing to sustainable agreements.

This terrible, failing loser of a man has inflicted on Israel, in less than three years, the worst strategic debacles in its history. The October 7 massacre, the two-year war in Gaza and the north, which ended without vanquishing Hamas and Hezbollah and now, dragging of Trump into a joint war in Iran to the astonishment and revulsion of the world including a vast majority of the American public. The bill and revenge will be presented to Israel and to Jews around the world.

However, the blame cannot fall only on Netanyahu and his government of eunuchs. A large majority of the public in Israel and the country's media outlets and among the so-called opposition, enthusiastically supported the war, believing in its total justification and in the possibility of attaining its delusional objectives.

If Israel manages to break away from the chokehold of the Bibi-ist-Kahanist-Haredi-nationalist-ultra-Orthodox alliance in the coming election, it will need to engage in reeducation and wean itself away from the use of force and ever more force as the only solution to problems. Life is more than a Masada syndrome and a defense of a Middle Eastern Sparta.
I’d meant to thank you for sharing this article but lost track of it - so belatedly, thank you.

In today’s Guardian:
No more US military aid to Israel
​~ Bernie Sanders

I am a proud Jewish American. My father fled Poland in 1921 to escape poverty and antisemitism. Those in his family who stayed were murdered by the Nazis. Since childhood, I have known very well where antisemitism, racism, fanaticism and demagoguery lead.

So let me be clear. Speaking out against the horrific and inhumane actions of Israel, and its extremist leader, Benjamin Netanyahu, is not antisemitic. Speaking out about the dangerous and destructive role that Israel plays in shaping US foreign and military policy is not antisemitic. It is, in fact, what every member of Congress and every American should be doing.

On 7 October 2023, Hamas, a terrorist organization, attacked Israel. They killed more than 1,200 innocent men, women and children and took hundreds of hostages. Like any other country, Israel had the absolute right to respond to the Hamas attack. But they did not have the right to violate international law and wage an all-out war of enormous destruction against the entire Palestinian people – in what experts have correctly concluded is a genocide.

They did not have the right, out of a population of 2.2 million, to kill more than 72,000 Palestinians in Gaza and wound over 170,000 - the majority of whom are women, children and the elderly. They did not have the right to destroy almost all of Gaza’s infrastructure, including its water and sewer systems and its supply of electricity.

They did not have the right to demolish every one of Gaza’s 12 universities, along with hundreds of schools – dismantling their entire educational system. They did not have the right to damage or destroy over 90% of the housing units in Gaza, resulting in the vast majority of the population now sleeping in tents.

They did not have the right to damage or destroy 94% of the hospitals in Gaza and kill 1,700 healthcare workers. They did not have the right to impose a blockade, which prevented food, water, fuel and medicine from entering Gaza – resulting in thousands of Palestinians being diagnosed with malnutrition and hundreds actually starving to death.

That carnage has not stopped. Despite the so-called “ceasefire”, humanitarian aid is still far below what is needed and Israel continues to kill civilians.

But it’s not just Gaza. In the West Bank, in direct violation of international law that protects Palestinian territory, Israeli soldiers and settlers have killed 1,071 Palestinians, including 233 children, since October 2023. During that period, they have demolished more than 6,000 Palestinian homes and established more than 200 new illegal settlements and outposts in Palestinian territory.

This is not just the action of extremist settlers. This is government policy. Netanyahu’s security cabinet has approved the most sweeping changes to the West Bank’s legal status since 1967 – removing nearly all constraints on settlement expansion. Netanyahu himself declared: “There will never be a Palestinian state.” His finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, bragged that new settlement construction would “bury” the idea of a Palestinian state.

Further, we now know that Netanyahu convinced Trump to start an unprovoked and unconstitutional war on Iran. This war, in violation of international law, has already resulted in the deaths of thousands of civilians, including hundreds of children in Iran and Lebanon, 26 Israeli civilians and 13 American soldiers. All over the world, billions of innocent people are suffering the economic consequences of this war, with higher prices and scarcity of basic goods.

Given the horrific and illegal behavior of the Netanyahu government, the American people have had enough
But for Netanyahu, Gaza was not enough. Iran was not enough. He is now waging a full-blown war of expansion against Lebanon. That war has not only killed more than 2,000 people, but has resulted in Israel occupying 14% of Lebanese territory.

The Israeli defense minister, Israel Katz, has announced that all Lebanese border villages will be demolished – his exact words – following the “model in Gaza”. Bezalel Smotrich, the finance minister, has warned that Dahiyeh, a suburb of south Beirut, “will look like Khan Younis” – a city in Gaza that Israel reduced to rubble.

These are not threats. They are promises.

Given the horrific and illegal behavior of the Netanyahu government over the last three years, the American people have had enough.

Support for Israel in this country has plummeted. Today, according to a recent Pew poll, 80% of Democrats now have an unfavorable opinion of Israel and 41% of Republicans share that view – and the numbers among young people are even higher. A recent Quinnipiac poll also found that 60% – including three-quarters of Democrats and two-thirds of independents – oppose the US sending arms to Israel.

That is why this Wednesday, I will be forcing the Senate to vote on two Joint Resolutions of Disapproval – the only formal mechanism Congress has to block an arms sale. The first would block the sale of $151.8m in 1,000-pound bombs.

The second would block $295m in bulldozers – the machines used to demolish homes in the West Bank and Gaza and make a Palestinian state physically impossible. These are not defensive weapons. They are the instruments of ethnic cleansing.

The time is long overdue for members of Congress to listen to the American people and end US military aid to the extremist Netanyahu government

I hope my colleagues will join me in supporting these resolutions.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Thank you, Bernie Sanders, for putting so clearly and so forcefully into words what so many of have been trying to say.

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BoSoxGal
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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

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Has anyone else seen the LEGO videos being made in Iran and pushed out to social media?

YouTube has now banned them which I think is bullshit, but this one was posted on a Facebook page I follow and I saw it first thing this morning, and then engaged in a comments thread about it which provoked some frustration as I realized how entirely ignorant so many Americans are about the history of US interference in Iran and that we, and the UK, are largely responsible for 72 years of Iranian suffering before we started dropping bombs on them and murdering their children six weeks ago.

So all day today I kept thinking what kind of country Iran would’ve become had Mosaddegh remained in power and the Iranian people in control of their own destiny, for better or worse.

We really kind of suck.

Anyway hope you can view this link and see the messages the Iranian regime is trying to send to the American people, particularly the youth.

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/18V3ex ... tid=wwXIfr
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
~ Carl Sagan

ex-khobar Andy
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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

liberty wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2026 6:52 pm
Today, it is likely that some, or even many, of the people who supported the 1979 revolution look back with regret, given the restrictions that followed.
The same can be said of many of those who voted for Trump in 2016, 2020 and 2024.

As a veteran of student politics in the 1960s, I know how that happens. Single issue politics. I watched with horror as a group, founded to support science, imploded. We were all against nuclear weapons and pollution and Big Oil (this was before climate change was a thing). And yet it fell apart because the Marxists wouldn't talk to the Trotskyists who wouldn't talk to the Maoists and no-one talked to the Socialists.

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Re: USA & Israel launch illegal war on Iran

Post by Big RR »

Well, I'd also add the fact that many people are willing to embrace anyone or anything else to replace an individual or government they despise. I think Gandhi said most people would prefer a bad government of their own choosing to even a benevolent government imposed (or thoguth to be imposed) on them, and we have seen this happen many times throughout history. Congress doesn't work? Elect/appoint/install a person who rules by decree ("At least he gets things done"). Removing a brutal dictator or monarch? Elect/appoint/install a person just as brutal or worse to be sure we get the old regime out. It's a sad fact that people (at least many) prefer not to think.

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