Why UK police should be armed

[Gob]

Three police officers tried to chase a killer during a shooting rampage in Cumbria but could not stop him, it has emerged.

An unarmed officer based at a Whitehaven police station heard shots at 1033 BST on Wednesday.

He got into a passing car and followed Derrick Bird in his own taxi as he shot another driver. Two other unarmed officers followed in a police van.

Bird killed 12 people on the rampage in west Cumbria before shooting himself.

He also wounded 11 others as he drove for 45 miles through the Cumbrian countryside.

Paul Goodwin had seen the shooting at the taxi rank and decided to follow in his car.

He said: "Just as we got to the corner there were policemen coming down from the police station and I saw the local town bobby so pulled over and shouted 'get in the car - it's him in the taxi'.

"We got to the traffic lights, and we're probably about 10 or 15 yards behind and there's a man walking round the corner.

"I saw him jolt back and put his hands on his face and there was blood there.

"I said, 'it's Paul, it's another taxi driver'."

Deputy Chief Constable Stuart Hyde said that "at no point" did officers "have the opportunity to end the killings sooner".

He added that the first officer went to the assistance of the injured man, who had been in another taxi, and his female passenger, who had also been shot.

A police transit van, with two unarmed officers, then joined the pursuit and continued to follow Bird.

Bird appeared to pull into a driveway, turned and pointed the gun directly at the officers, before driving off at high speed.

The officers attempted to follow but were unable to locate him.

Cumbria Police said in a statement: "They were forced to protect themselves after it became clear they could not reverse due to the traffic that had built up behind them.

"Despite having just witnessed a shooting and having a gun pointed at them, the officers attempted to follow him and despite asking passers-by where he had driven, were unable to locate him again.

"These officers were at the time unarmed and in a vehicle not suitable for a high-speed pursuit."

Having already killed his twin brother, the family solicitor and a colleague, Bird went on to kill nine other people before his body was found in remote woodland.

Mr Hyde said: "Our officers are expected to deal with difficult and challenging situations.

"This incident was unprecedented and exceptional circumstances were fast-moving and highly dangerous.

"Had any officer or member of staff had the clear opportunity to stop Bird I am confident they would have taken it.

"Those officers were putting themselves in imminent danger, they could see the man was armed and he had just shot someone in front of them."

Inquests into the victims' deaths were opened and adjourned in Whitehaven earlier.

David Roberts, the North and West Cumbria coroner, said initial post-mortem examinations revealed that all Bird's victims died from "wounds from firearm".

An inquest into Derrick Bird's death, in woodland at Penny Hill Farm, in Boot, was also opened and adjourned.

Deputy Chief Constable Hyde commended officers for getting to the scene "within minutes, possibly seconds" of the initial call, adding it was a "pretty fast response in anybody's book".

"These are ordinary neighbourhood officers who did everything they could to get to the scene," he said.

"Armed officers were en route."

He said 42 armed officers from across the county were ordered to go to the scene within minutes of the first call.

He should have been shot in sight.

[loCAtek]

A armed bystander could have responded too, it amounts to self-defense..

[Gob]

True, but I'd rather see trained and armed Police officers rather than the untrained bystander dealing with it.

[Big RR]

Gob--aren't someolice in the UK armed? I could swear I saw some police with handguns (and others with rifles) when I was in London several years back (it was around the time the underground was bombed, so it might have been a special reason, but I always thought that some police carried guns routinely, while the foot patrolmen did not.

[Reality Bytes]

We have armed response units - specially trained firearms officers who respond to all firearms offenses. They are based at a central location within each force area. Some airports have armed police patrols but not all, and it also depends upon the current threat level, generally the UK police do not carry firearms nor do I want to see them routinely carrying guns.

The Cumbria shootings fortunately are an isolated occurance here and do not warrant the routine arming of the police, from all thats emerging about the guy there were no clues or warnings and everyone is shocked at what happened - he isn't even being vilified by the press as they have struggled to find anyone to speak badly of him despite what he has done. Armed police couldn't have prevented what happened they might have reduced the death toll but it's unlikely they could have prevented all the deaths. The Chief Constable has gone on record to state that all 42 firearmed trained officers were deployed during the incident but that they did not have any safe opportunity to take the guy out.

[dales]

It would appear that the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA does some things right after all.

So, there!

[Big RR]

I don't know dales, even with armed policemen we have a lot more gun violence that Great Britain does without them.

[Daisy]

We have only had 4 mass shootings in half a century.

We have one of the lowest gun ownerships in the world.

There were 47 ARMED officers hunting Derrick Bird from the point where he'd shot someone out in the open.

This guy was a taxi driver, he knew all the shortcuts and backroads round winding sleepy villages in the lake district. I honestly think there was very little more they could have done given the circumstances.

It's a fucking horrible thing to happen, but if you put more guns in more hands it would happen MORE OFTEN.

[Gob]

I have to disagree Daisy, the police are ALL armed in Aus, and we have similar gun fatalities to the UK.

[dales]

by Big RR » Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:53 am

I don't know dales, even with armed policemen we have a lot more gun violence that Great Britain does without them.

And why is this?

Me thinks 80% is drug-related.

Take the criminality out of drug use and treat as a medical problem.

The BILLIONS of dollars spent in the last 30 years could've paid for state of the art rehab and treatment centers instead of jails, prisons, and legal bullsh-t.

Drug abuse is a MEDICAL PROBLEM - not a criminal one.

The phoney war on drugs is an EPIC FAIL in the US.

Most forward-thinking people believe that.




oh, btw......

THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS BECOMING MORE OBVIOUS EACH DAY

[Big RR]

No argument there dales; i agree drug use should be legalized, and that this would cut down on the violence.

But I also think we are a society that turns far more often to the use of firearms to solve problems than GB is. The problem goes deeper than whether police are armed or not.

[dales]

It is my theory that in the US (taking drug factor out of the mix).

Death by firearms would be as follows:

Suicide

Murder (for any number of reasons)

Accident


I don't know about the UK.

If the citizenry believes more armed police is the answer, so be it.

Their society is becoming as fractured as the US and firearms deaths are lower because firearms ownership is severely restricted.

To restrict the ownership of firearms in the US is IMPOSSIBLE. With over 300million weapons (many unregistered - such as mine) the task could never be accomplished and never will be accomplished.