trump is serious!!!!!

[Econoline]

[Scooter]

Trump's new campaign ad

[Scooter]

Any bets that wes will soon be proclaiming Trump to be the next RFK, or MLK, or Gandhi?

[Bicycle Bill]

Trump's new campaign ad

Trump's had that voting bloc locked up solid from day one.

-"BB"-

[wesw]

trump got a really important endorsement....

Paul O Neill

I m an orioles fan and even I don t dislike paul o neill....


...oh yeah, he got ben carson too.

**********

cruz got neil bush ....., and carly fiorini ..... and mitt got the junior senator from Utah to endorse cruz too, also, as well...

***********

paul o neill is the big get tho, at least in the general election, if trump gets there. Mr o neill could tip new York to the repubs....

yankee fans all over the country love them some Paul. he is holly s baseball hero.

he ain t no brooksie, but he he wasn t bad, for a Yankee.....

he was an old school, proper baseball player. the kind that wins rings.

....but I digress.

oh yeah..., jim, RR...

I noticed that you two were having a lofty, intellectual, elite salon type of conversation in another thread a couple of days ago.

you were delving deeply into the psyche of trump voters and into their desire for an authoritarian figure to guide them thru this complicated and confusing time in the history of the world.

your attempt to empathize with these poor confused americans, and your wishes to find a way to get thru to them and to explain to them how they were misguided and how they must be shown the errors of their thought processes and how they must be gently guided onto the proper path, was laudible, perhaps even noble...your effort was appreciated by me and would be appreciated by most trump supporters, I think.

it is appreciated and understood.

it is warm, it is soft it is stinky.

it is horse shit.

I want an authoritarian????

does that sound right to you?

I will grant you that I am not the average redneck (don t forget that trump won hew hamp., Vermont, and Massachusetts too), but I ll guarantee you that the average trump supporter is a lot more like me than they are like whatever type of doltish creatures that you were describing.

jim was right about the left being the real Orwellian authoritarians.

to them, and the republican ol' boy network, democracy and the People are just pawns or problems in their quest for money and power.

the 'elite' on both the left and the right seem to think that democracy and the will of the people are something to be controlled by "the best and the brightest", which means the richest and most well connected, and who ever THEY decide is welcome at their private parties, which they believe should rule without the advice or consent of the People.

jim, you call for a military coup, repeatedly and jarlaxle is the only one to call you out on it?

no one else finds that abhorrent?

is that really better than trump or sanders being president, jim? anyone?

bicycle bill said that he wouldn t go Canada, because trump would be out of range from there...

he talks about shooting an American president and no one says a thing?

what if someone had joked about Obama that way? I would not be happy. impeach? yes! shoot? no! it ain t hard. it ain t complicated.

what the fuck is wrong with you guys?

it s an election. it s America.

...and you call us Nazis?

why don t you guys get a 'little man', a carpenter, in to do a home improvement project and talk to him. ask him why he is a Nazi. tell him its not really his fault, he is just not very smart. he is just uninformed and uneducated. guide him to the proper way of thinking...., yours.

...or maybe you could actually listen to him.

nah, that s just crazy.

who would listen to a carpenter. what could a simple carpenter teach you?

it would be funny if it weren t so sad.

but what do I know? I m just a simple fisherman

[Joe Guy]

Hmmmmmm.......

wesw is back and he's not happy...

[wesw]

I m watching the debate.

trump wants to leave the retirement age where it is and Rubio wants to raise it to 70.

from the point of view of a construction type worker, the thought of working til 70 is daunting.

a man s body suffers from this type of work, especially if you are a hard worker.

in the steel fab trade not many men can make it til 60.....

many other trades are similar in the toll they take on the body.

[Burning Petard]

BB want to shoot somebody? Trump started this talk of shooting, by bragging that he could stand on a busy street in NY City, shoot somebody at random, and his supporters would still vote for him. What does that say about the Donald's respect for his supporters?

It used to be a cliche in American politics, that the voter's memory did not beyond six months. The Donald acts as though his supporters' memory of what he says can't last for six days.

snailgate

[wesw]

trump/Kasich 2016 ???

trump and Kasich, trump and Kasich....

[BoSoxGal]

I m watching the debate.

trump wants to leave the retirement age where it is and Rubio wants to raise it to 70.

from the point of view of a construction type worker, the thought of working til 70 is daunting.

a man s body suffers from this type of work, especially if you are a hard worker.

in the steel fab trade not many men can make it til 60.....

many other trades are similar in the toll they take on the body.

Too bad, you should have studied harder in school and picked a profession that was easier on your body.

That would be the prototypical Republican response, methinks. And isn't Cruz the one who believes, like the Bible says, that we shouldn't get to retire at all?

My comments about your choice of work are facetious, of course; as a good liberal I think you should be able to retire at a humane age and earn a retirement stipend sufficient to survive on with some dignity in your elder years. I also think we should change our culture in this country to embrace the gifts and wisdom that elders could provide through an AmeriCorps of retired persons, volunteering in their communities for schools, nonprofits, libraries, etc. Statistics show that when people retire and do nothing, they typically die in fairly short order.

[Lord Jim]

oh yeah..., jim, RR...

I noticed that you two were having a lofty, intellectual, elite salon type of conversation in another thread a couple of days ago.

you were delving deeply into the psyche of trump voters and into their desire for an authoritarian figure to guide them thru this complicated and confusing time in the history of the world.

your attempt to empathize with these poor confused americans, and your wishes to find a way to get thru to them and to explain to them how they were misguided and how they must be shown the errors of their thought processes and how they must be gently guided onto the proper path, was laudible, perhaps even noble...your effort was appreciated by me and would be appreciated by most trump supporters, I think.

That would've been a great place to end your post wes...

ETA:

Hmmmmmm.......

wesw is back and he's not happy...

Well, at least he got it all out in one post instead of splitting it into six...

[Big RR]

well wes, I wasn't trying to guide anyone to any place; all I was doing is to try to make some sense of this situation, and to point out the problems it might be bringing.

[Burning Petard]

I notice that the Donald has organized a wonderful press conference in Florida right now. Dr. Carson, the brain surgeon is gonna endorse him.
This is big, it is huge. The Donald is proud to accept the approval of the man the Donald said 'is Pathological. He has some kind of disease, it's like a child abuser, you can't cure that."

Is that going after the chronically ill vote?

snailgate

[Big RR]

But in Trump doublethink, he never said that.

[MajGenl.Meade]

you were delving deeply into the psyche of trump voters and into their desire for an authoritarian figure

Apparently wesw shares LJ's misinterpretation of the article to which he refers. LJ had posted (having not read the article, as he honestly stated at that point) an errant understanding of "authoritarian" and wesw simply reflects that error, having not read (or comprehended), who is the authoritarian in question.

Glad I don't have to read any more than LJ quoted - apparently it deteriorated after that.

[Joe Guy]

Somebody should have advised Carson to not have a press conference until his nap is over...

[Econoline]

Wes, I wish you'd go read the article before spouting off on what it clearly *DIDN'T* say.

(Here's the link, again: http://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism)

You might also want to at least take a look at what Meade, Snailgate (Burning Petard), and Sue said in that thread. (Link to thread: http://www.theplanbforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15328#p195286)

[Lord Jim]

For the record, having read the entire article, I find a shitload wrong with the reasoning...

I don't have time to go over all of it, but I find the basic definition of "authoritarianism" to be totally incomplete, addressing only one form, and the "test" that was devised to see who would fit this incomplete definition:

Please tell me which one you think is more important for a child to have: independence or respect for elders?
Please tell me which one you think is more important for a child to have: obedience or self-reliance?
Please tell me which one you think is more important for a child to have: to be considerate or to be well-behaved?
Please tell me which one you think is more important for a child to have: curiosity or good manners?

Of little to no value in determining anything. (Presumably most parents would prefer their children to be both "considerate" and "well behaved" and have both "curiosity" and good manners" ) Another one of the many "tests" that don't provide clear "either/or" choices...

[MajGenl.Meade]

er... that's the point, LJ. They do provide either/or choices - you get to choose either one... one or the other. You want to choose "both" - but that doesn't tell us anything. When people must make a choice between two things, their choice speaks to their priority. (Except for Big RR ).

It is out of order to say that the reasoning is wrong solely because you don't like the particular way their study defines authoritarianism. You can say "it doesn't mean that" (or "only that") until you are blue in the face but that's no argument or discussion at all. Given their definition, does their study yield results that are replicable and consistent and predictive?

The fact is, yes - the answers to those simple questions are reliable indicators of whether or not people who prefer things to remain the same (as they were x years ago) self-select as either republicans in general or Trump supporters in particular. The very word "conservative" should of course be an indicator as well.

It clearly does not say (and says it clearly) that all Republicans or conservatives or Trump supporters are "authoritarian" in their outlook or aspirations. So, you're not being painted with this particular brush, are you? Why so defensive?

I agree that what Sue said back in the original thread is about the best summation

[Jarlaxle]

Here's the thing. Most Trump supporters, and I include Wes in this, have legitimate frustration/anger/etc. with the status quo and how both parties have failed miserably to protect the middle class in this country. The thing everyone here, except Wes, seems to understand is that Trump is a con man who is tapping into that legitimate viewpoint and cynically dancing with the media all the way to a likely nomination. Trump may believe a little of what he is saying, but for the most part he is manipulating a huge part of the voters in an obvious way. It's possible, Wes, that you understand this and say at least he cares enough to be "our" voice. But Trump is an obnoxious huckster. If you want to see an authentic candidate tapping into much the same frustration/anger but on the left side, take a look at Sanders, he's the real deal.

My wife supports Trump because of border security...at this point, she cares not a whit about any other issue.