trump is serious!!!!!

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Joe Guy
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by Joe Guy »

dgs49 wrote:Quick: Somebody provide a quotation of something Trump has said that is "racist."
“Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”

“Laziness is a trait in blacks.”
dgs49 wrote:Now, define "race" (in context).
A group of people sharing the same culture, history, language, etc.; an ethnic group

dgs49 wrote:Define "racist."
A person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
dgs49 wrote:Are illegal Mexican immigrants a different "race" from Donald Trump?
Not according to the U.S. Census Bureau. So, technically, Trump is a prejudiced bigot.
dgs49 wrote:What "race" would that be, exactly?
N/A

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Guinevere
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by Guinevere »

Forbes' "hard-hitting" expose on the Trump bankruptcies:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/clareoconno ... k-for-him/

Fourth Time's A Charm: How Donald Trump Made Bankruptcy Work For Him


Here at FORBES, we’ve been tracking Donald Trump‘s wealth since the inaugural Forbes 400 rich list in 1982. Today, we value him at $2.7 billion, although he claims he’s worth far more. One question we’re often asked when talk turns to Trump’s fortune: how can a man who has been bankrupt so many times remain a multi-billionaire? How is he worth more now, post-bankruptcies? We spoke to bankruptcy lawyers and casino industry experts — some of whom have had firsthand involvement in Chapter 11 cases connected to Trump — in an attempt to explain how he has survived corporate bankruptcies and thrived in the aftermath.
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Scooter
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by Scooter »

I don't know enough about the hotel and casino business to judge whether four bankruptcies over 25 years in a group of properties of that size is unusual. I see hotels close and re-open under a new brand fairly often, whether that meant the new owners assumed the debt or the corporation it was held in went completely belly up, I don't know. 1991 and 1992 were recession years, I would imagine that a gambling vacation was something that most people did without if money was tight, so those two seem completely reasonable.
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Lord Jim
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by Lord Jim »

Mitt Romney was excoriated for his role at Bain Capitol, for laying off workers of some companies they acquired that couldn't have been profitable otherwise...

How many working people got left high and dry without even their last pay checks as a result of Trump's bankruptcies? How many small business people who were contracted to provide goods or services to his company were damaged?

A genuinely "hard-hitting" investigation of his bankruptcies would be bringing these impacts to light. As near as I can tell, not one single major news organization has done the slightest bit of investigation into this. (That Forbes article certainly didn't)
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Guinevere
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by Guinevere »

Which is why "hard-hitting" is in quotes......
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Scooter
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by Scooter »

Lord Jim wrote:How many working people got left high and dry without even their last pay checks as a result of Trump's bankruptcies? How many small business people who were contracted to provide goods or services to his company were damaged?
It feels odd to appear to be defending Donald Trump, but the whole purpose of Chapter 11 is to provide a way for a business to keep functioning while it negotiates with creditors, because they stand a better chance of recouping their money from a going concern that can generate cash to pay them, rather than shutting the doors and having a fire sale of anything of value.

Canadian bankruptcy law entitles employees to receive unpaid wages up to a number of weeks which I can't recall, ahead of any other creditors including secured debtholders. I think the trade debt would have been close to insignificant compared to the bonds and other loans.

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding and outright prejudice about what a bankruptcy achieves - as if it's someone getting away with something at someone else's expense, rather than seeing it as everyone sacrificing some part of their interests in order to protect the remainder.
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Guinevere
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by Guinevere »

There is also a huge difference between buying companies for profit and then tearing them apart, because its more profitable to do so, than availing yourself of a legal tool. It's comparing apples and oranges.

Chapter 11 is for reorganization, to allow the business to continue to function as a going concern. Chapter 7 is liquidation.

And Scooter, yes, salaries and wages are given priority under the US Bankruptcy code too. Here's the priority list:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/11/507
(a) The following expenses and claims have priority in the following order:
(1) First:
(A) Allowed unsecured claims for domestic support obligations that, as of the date of the filing of the petition in a case under this title, are owed to or recoverable by a spouse, former spouse, or child of the debtor, or such child’s parent, legal guardian, or responsible relative, without regard to whether the claim is filed by such person or is filed by a governmental unit on behalf of such person, on the condition that funds received under this paragraph by a governmental unit under this title after the date of the filing of the petition shall be applied and distributed in accordance with applicable nonbankruptcy law.
(B) Subject to claims under subparagraph (A), allowed unsecured claims for domestic support obligations that, as of the date of the filing of the petition, are assigned by a spouse, former spouse, child of the debtor, or such child’s parent, legal guardian, or responsible relative to a governmental unit (unless such obligation is assigned voluntarily by the spouse, former spouse, child, parent, legal guardian, or responsible relative of the child for the purpose of collecting the debt) or are owed directly to or recoverable by a governmental unit under applicable nonbankruptcy law, on the condition that funds received under this paragraph by a governmental unit under this title after the date of the filing of the petition be applied and distributed in accordance with applicable nonbankruptcy law.
(C) If a trustee is appointed or elected under section 701, 702, 703, 1104, 1202, or 1302, the administrative expenses of the trustee allowed under paragraphs (1)(A), (2), and (6) of section 503 (b) shall be paid before payment of claims under subparagraphs (A) and (B), to the extent that the trustee administers assets that are otherwise available for the payment of such claims.
(2) Second, administrative expenses allowed under section 503 (b) of this title, unsecured claims of any Federal reserve bank related to loans made through programs or facilities authorized under section 13(3) of the Federal Reserve Act (12 U.S.C. 343), [1] and any fees and charges assessed against the estate under chapter 123 of title 28.
(3) Third, unsecured claims allowed under section 502 (f) of this title.
(4) Fourth, allowed unsecured claims, but only to the extent of $10,000 for each individual or corporation, as the case may be, earned within 180 days before the date of the filing of the petition or the date of the cessation of the debtor’s business, whichever occurs first, for—
(A) wages, salaries, or commissions, including vacation, severance, and sick leave pay earned by an individual; or
(B) sales commissions earned by an individual or by a corporation with only 1 employee, acting as an independent contractor in the sale of goods or services for the debtor in the ordinary course of the debtor’s business if, and only if, during the 12 months preceding that date, at least 75 percent of the amount that the individual or corporation earned by acting as an independent contractor in the sale of goods or services was earned from the debtor.
(5) Fifth, allowed unsecured claims for contributions to an employee benefit plan—
(A) arising from services rendered within 180 days before the date of the filing of the petition or the date of the cessation of the debtor’s business, whichever occurs first; but only
(B) for each such plan, to the extent of—
(i) the number of employees covered by each such plan multiplied by $10,000; less
(ii) the aggregate amount paid to such employees under paragraph (4) of this subsection, plus the aggregate amount paid by the estate on behalf of such employees to any other employee benefit plan.
(6) Sixth, allowed unsecured claims of persons—
(A) engaged in the production or raising of grain, as defined in section 557 (b) of this title, against a debtor who owns or operates a grain storage facility, as defined in section 557 (b) of this title, for grain or the proceeds of grain, or
(B) engaged as a United States fisherman against a debtor who has acquired fish or fish produce from a fisherman through a sale or conversion, and who is engaged in operating a fish produce storage or processing facility—
but only to the extent of $4,000 for each such individual.
(7) Seventh, allowed unsecured claims of individuals, to the extent of $1,800 for each such individual, arising from the deposit, before the commencement of the case, of money in connection with the purchase, lease, or rental of property, or the purchase of services, for the personal, family, or household use of such individuals, that were not delivered or provided.
(8) Eighth, allowed unsecured claims of governmental units, only to the extent that such claims are for—
(A) a tax on or measured by income or gross receipts for a taxable year ending on or before the date of the filing of the petition—
(i) for which a return, if required, is last due, including extensions, after three years before the date of the filing of the petition;
(ii) assessed within 240 days before the date of the filing of the petition, exclusive of—
(I) any time during which an offer in compromise with respect to that tax was pending or in effect during that 240-day period, plus 30 days; and
(II) any time during which a stay of proceedings against collections was in effect in a prior case under this title during that 240-day period, plus 90 days; or
(iii) other than a tax of a kind specified in section 523 (a)(1)(B) or 523 (a)(1)(C) of this title, not assessed before, but assessable, under applicable law or by agreement, after, the commencement of the case;
(B) a property tax incurred before the commencement of the case and last payable without penalty after one year before the date of the filing of the petition;
(C) a tax required to be collected or withheld and for which the debtor is liable in whatever capacity;
(D) an employment tax on a wage, salary, or commission of a kind specified in paragraph (4) of this subsection earned from the debtor before the date of the filing of the petition, whether or not actually paid before such date, for which a return is last due, under applicable law or under any extension, after three years before the date of the filing of the petition;
(E) an excise tax on—
(i) a transaction occurring before the date of the filing of the petition for which a return, if required, is last due, under applicable law or under any extension, after three years before the date of the filing of the petition; or
(ii) if a return is not required, a transaction occurring during the three years immediately preceding the date of the filing of the petition;
(F) a customs duty arising out of the importation of merchandise—
(i) entered for consumption within one year before the date of the filing of the petition;
(ii) covered by an entry liquidated or reliquidated within one year before the date of the filing of the petition; or
(iii) entered for consumption within four years before the date of the filing of the petition but unliquidated on such date, if the Secretary of the Treasury certifies that failure to liquidate such entry was due to an investigation pending on such date into assessment of antidumping or countervailing duties or fraud, or if information needed for the proper appraisement or classification of such merchandise was not available to the appropriate customs officer before such date; or
(G) a penalty related to a claim of a kind specified in this paragraph and in compensation for actual pecuniary loss.
An otherwise applicable time period specified in this paragraph shall be suspended for any period during which a governmental unit is prohibited under applicable nonbankruptcy law from collecting a tax as a result of a request by the debtor for a hearing and an appeal of any collection action taken or proposed against the debtor, plus 90 days; plus any time during which the stay of proceedings was in effect in a prior case under this title or during which collection was precluded by the existence of 1 or more confirmed plans under this title, plus 90 days.
(9) Ninth, allowed unsecured claims based upon any commitment by the debtor to a Federal depository institutions regulatory agency (or predecessor to such agency) to maintain the capital of an insured depository institution.
(10) Tenth, allowed claims for death or personal injury resulting from the operation of a motor vehicle or vessel if such operation was unlawful because the debtor was intoxicated from using alcohol, a drug, or another substance.
(b) If the trustee, under section 362, 363, or 364 of this title, provides adequate protection of the interest of a holder of a claim secured by a lien on property of the debtor and if, notwithstanding such protection, such creditor has a claim allowable under subsection (a)(2) of this section arising from the stay of action against such property under section 362 of this title, from the use, sale, or lease of such property under section 363 of this title, or from the granting of a lien under section 364 (d) of this title, then such creditor’s claim under such subsection shall have priority over every other claim allowable under such subsection.
(c) For the purpose of subsection (a) of this section, a claim of a governmental unit arising from an erroneous refund or credit of a tax has the same priority as a claim for the tax to which such refund or credit relates.
(d) An entity that is subrogated to the rights of a holder of a claim of a kind specified in subsection (a)(1), (a)(4), (a)(5), (a)(6), (a)(7), (a)(8), or (a)(9) of this section is not subrogated to the right of the holder of such claim to priority under such subsection.
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Big RR
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by Big RR »

Scooter--in the US Chapter 11 allows the debtor to write off some of their debt and pay the rest; generally, the minimum they will have to pay the creditors is what they would get in a liquidation (Chapter 7) bankruptcy, but many creditors lose a good portion of their claim. You are correct that employees of the concern filing chapter 11 have a priority in getting their wages, but this does not always work out; and chapter 11 is routinely used by employers to reject negotiated employment contracts and reduce wages in the future on a take it or leave it basis, so many lose even more. And general unsecured creditors (especially the smaller contractors and suppliers) usually lose the most (and FWIW, this is not an insignificant portion of the debt, in many cases it's huge; many bondholders and commercial lenders are secured debtors and will take ahead of them; and the security interest is often against the goods they supplied or the fixtures they installed).

As for your last statement, many times bankruptcy is exactly the debtor getting away with something at the creditor's expense, especially if the difficulties are due to financial mismanagement as I recall a lot of Trump's were. Indeed, businesses in the US have lobbied for and gotten a change in the US bankruptcy laws that would permit individuals to do what Trump did through his businesses, making many personal debts (like credit card debt) not dischargeable by claiming the individuals are manipulating the system. But businesses continue to get this pass.

Now don't get me wrong, I believe creditors know (or should know) the bankruptcy laws as they are part of the risk they take when lending money or advancing supplies/services, and should factor that into the interest they charge. But many smaller concerns do not (and many are shocked when they find out what their position is) . Sure, it's their own fault, but it does bother me when I see the guys like Trump come out on top while a contractor or supplier loses his/her business.

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Guinevere
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by Guinevere »

The leader of the GOP Pack is clearly anti-family and anti-woman:


http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/29/politics/ ... index.html
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AUGUST 6, 2015

Post by RayThom »

Eight days and counting before that big bag of methane gas (I'm referring to Trump) explodes into a "YUGE" ball of flames. Without a doubt this "debate" will be the best one ever witnessed.

“Make America Great Again!" Dump the Trump.

Oh, and God bless America.

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wesw
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by wesw »

sure would be interesting to see trump as secretary of state. Kerry talks, a lot, but never seems to say anything.....

I watched a bit of the senate hearings over the last couple of days. I was really struck by Kerry s arrogance and false indignation. not a serious man. a serious stooge. a real yes man s yes man. he ll jump as high as his handler asks, it seems. the ends justify his means , I guess.

I just wonder who his master is.

Obama s discussion of American politics and his long distance backbiting, while he was in Ethiopia was distasteful too. he did finally mention that clit cutting should end, but of course no one covered it but Fox....

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Crackpot
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

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How much does Trumps hair get paid for this?
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Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Lord Jim
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by Lord Jim »

This really handed me a laugh:
Rand Paul attributes Trump's rise to a 'loss of sanity'

Sen. Rand Paul (Ky.) is attributing GOP rival Donald Trump's rise in the polls to a momentary "loss of sanity."

"I think this is a temporary sort of loss of sanity, but we're going to come back to our senses and look for someone serious to lead the country at some point," Paul told CNN anchor Wolf Blitzer on his show, when asked about a new national poll showing Trump still atop the crowded GOP field.

Paul pointed to the extensive media coverage of the controversial candidate.

"Television works, Wolf," said Paul. "If you would give some other candidates time from 8 in the morning to 8 at night, all day long, every day for three weeks, I'm guessing some other candidates might rise as well."

Paul lamented the lack of any network "going gaga" over his own policy ideas, including a recently unveiled tax plan.

Paul had previously criticized Trump's coverage, saying that he is getting "a billion dollars worth of free advertising."
Paul is absolutely correct in his analysis....


The only problem with it, is his apparent conclusion that when "sanity returns" Rand "we need to destroy our national security and defense capabilities" Paul will be the beneficiary of the "return to sanity"... :lol:
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RayThom
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OR THIS...

Post by RayThom »

MASS (or at least 20%) HYSTERIA.

Hard to believe but this is 10 points higher than the eventual 2016 RNC presidential nominee, Jeb Bush, is polling at the moment. Don't get me wrong, I still want Trump to snag the nom but I'm a realist and know that's not gonna' happen.

August 6th 2015, FOX TV, 5PM... this is going to be "YUGE!" Be there or be square.

Of course, there's also Hillary's eroding trust factor but that for another time.

TRUMP/Palin 2016. That's the ticket!
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Lord Jim
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by Lord Jim »

If Rand Paul believes that once Trumpty Dumpty has a great fall, that he will be the one to lead the Republican Party out of Crazy Town, he's got another think coming... :?
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Crackpot
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by Crackpot »

Paul is pissed because he's supposed to be the anti-establishment candidate that sucks up all the protest votes.
Okay... There's all kinds of things wrong with what you just said.

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Lord Jim
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by Lord Jim »

Exactly.
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RayThom
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LJ. Re. RAND PAUL

Post by RayThom »

Lord Jim wrote:... he's got another think coming... :?
Curious, how many thinks does he get before he runs out of them?
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wesw
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by wesw »

man, I m watching trump s speech in Michigan right now.

man, he is good at what he does.

now he is the good cop.

he is doing one thing that I highly recommend other candidates do.

naming who he would like to get to fill important positions in his possible administration.

saying that you would ask some prestigious or brilliant person or competitor to fill a certain post is good in that it gives voter s a good way to see how you think and how good your judgment is.

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Lord Jim
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Re: trump is serious!!!!!

Post by Lord Jim »

Rand Paul nails it again (but, so does Trump:)
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Kentucky) is trying to intensify a fight with current Republican presidential front-runner Donald Trump.

Paul's campaign on Monday announced a conference call with reporters specifically dedicated to Trump. During that call, Paul slammed the real-estate magnate for conducting a substance-less presidential campaign and making derogatory comments about women.

"The truth telling is bluster, the truth-telling is non-sequitur, self-aggrandizement, but is there really anything substantive coming out of saying that people are fat, people are stupid?" Paul said of Trump.

Calling Trump a "fake conservative," Paul listed off the issues where Trump has agreed with Democrats in the past, including supporting the 2008 bank bailouts, supporting some stricter measures on gun ownership, and saying that a single-payer healthcare system "could have worked."

Paul's broadside caused Trump to respond with one of his own Monday evening. Writing on Twitter, the real-estate developer declared that Paul was "truly weird"[well, there's some truth to that...] and "reminds me of a spoiled brat without a properly functioning brain":[Well, Trump got one right anyway...though that would make them twins...]

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/rand-pau ... z3iYWhjFmO
Paul's a very bad and unqualified messenger, but his message is spot on... :ok
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