And Kennedy decides to fuck us all

[Lord Jim]

Trump voter focus groups always tend to be jaw dropping for me, but after seeing this one yesterday, I had to get a forklift to pry my jaw off the ground:



Here are a couple of quotes to give you the flavor of the comments:

"We're talking about a 15-year-old girl, which I respect. I'm a woman, I respect. But we're talking about a 17-year-old boy, in high school, testosterone running high. Tell me what boy hasn't done this in high school. Please, I would like to know," one woman said.

"I have no sympathy," Lourdes Castillo de la Pena said. "Perhaps maybe she had that moment she liked him. And maybe he didn't pay attention to her afterwards and he went out with another girl, she got bitter, whatever the situation is, they're kids."

It's clearly not just men who have some pretty, uhh, forgiving, views about teenage sexual assault...

[Burning Petard]

Memo To: Lourdes Castillo de la Pena

This one high school boy who did not ever do anything even close to this.

Signed, Snailgate.

[wesw]

oh, i d bet that jim attended his share of drunken high school parties.....

am i right?

don t have a clear recollection?



did you ever wear a toga, young jim?

[Joe Guy]

17 yr old Joe Guy: Hey, Mom! I'm gonna go to a party and get drunk and throw a 15 yr old girl on the bed and try to rip her clothes off. See ya later!!

Joe Guy's Mom: My my, Joey, you are being such a 17 yr old! Have a good time and don't forget to take your beer with you. It's in a 12 pack in the fridge!

17 yr old Joe Guy: Thanks for reminding me, Mom! I get so forgetful when I'm stoned.

[liberty]

you'll see more "religious freedom" laws upheld, broader acceptance of the idiocy that a corporation can have a religious belief, an upholding of a state's/locality's right to refuse marriage licenses to same gender couples, maybe even a recognition that not all states have to recognize a same gender marriage.
.

I think that I am fairly typical of the average person. When is come to homosexuality I don’t think that most people care that much. Of course a person being forced to engage in a contract they don’t want to be part of is a different thing. Does a lawyer have to accept any client that walks through the door? The same right should apply to bakers. Anyone who walks into the shop should be able to buy any cake on the shelf, but the baker should have the artistic freedom accept or reject any idea he wishes when making cakes.

[Lord Jim]

oh, i d bet that jim attended his share of drunken high school parties.....

am i right?

don t have a clear recollection?

Already addressed that wes:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18862&p=259917&hili ... om#p259917

The fact that you don't seem to get the difference between two people who are intoxicated engaging in mutually consensual physical contact and:

Kavanaugh physically pushed me into a bedroom as I was headed for a bathroom up a short stair well from the living room. They locked the door and played loud music precluding any successful attempt to yell for help.
Kavanaugh was on top of me while laughing with REDACTED,[We now know this to be Kavanaugh friend, Mark Judge]who periodically jumped onto Kavanaugh. They both laughed as Kavanaugh tried to disrobe me in their highly inebriated state. With Kavanaugh's hand over my mouth I feared he may inadvertently kill me.

From across the room a very drunken REDACTED said mixed words to Kavanaugh ranging from "go for it" to "stop."

At one point when REDACTED jumped onto the bed the weight on me was substantial. The pile toppled, and the two scrapped with each other. After a few attempts to get away, I was able to take this opportune moment to get up and run across to a hallway bathroom. I locked the bathroom door behind me. Both loudly stumbled down the stair well at which point other persons at the house were talking with them. I exited the bathroom, ran outside of the house and went home.

is disturbing...

Is that the kind of conduct you engaged in, or that was common for your friends to engage in?

Locked door, music turned up, girl pinned down, hand over her mouth...

Does that sound to you like a couple of drunk teens deciding to fool around?

Look, if people want to argue that they don't believe her allegations, or that they do believe they happened but after all this time maybe her recollection about it being Kavanaugh may be mistaken, one can agree or disagree with those points of view based on the available evidence and your evaluation of the relative credibility of the parties involved...

But what I find REALLY disturbing, is the point of view I see expressed by some in the media (like some of the comments in that focus group video I posted) and frankly, like what you seem to be implying, that even if what she alleges happened did happen that somehow it "ain't no big thang"...

That this is somehow common and/or expected behavior for teenage boys; minor misbehavior...

It manifestly is NOT, and it wasn't even back in 1983...

Or earlier...

did you ever wear a toga, young jim?

Went to several toga parties in college wes...(They were quite popular in the late 70s and early 80s)

And I know this may surprise you, but when I was at them I never once grabbed somebody, shoved them into a room, locked the door, turned up the music so their cries for help couldn't be heard, jumped on top of them, started groping and trying to take their clothes off while they struggled to get free, and put my hand over their mouth so nobody could hear them scream...

Nor do I know of anyone who did...

Yeah, I know; I must have just traveled with a really weird crowd...

[BoSoxGal]

Thank you for injecting that sanity, LJ.

It is sickening to hear so many men AND women attempting to normalize this sexual assault. However, it certainly explains how so many people could hear Trump admit - no, BRAG about - sexual assault and vote for him anyway.

[Scooter]

Since it was apparently just teens being teens, I'm sure wes would have no problem with me wishing that the incident as described by Ford would be visited upon his daughter.

[Lord Jim]

The question that came to my mind after watching that focus group Q&A (once I had recovered from the shock of what I was hearing) was to ask the participants:

Are these the kinds of things you would say to your 15 year old daughter if she came home from a party and told you that this had happened to her?

"Well look sweetie, all 17 year old boys do that; you just have to expect it"

"Well, he didn't succeed in forcing you to have intercourse with him, so I don't see the big deal"

"Please don't be bitter if he doesn't pay attention to you now"...

[ex-khobar Andy]

Tell me what boy hasn't done this in high school. Please, I would like to know,"

I would like to know a lot more about the crowd she ran with when she was at school. What are they doing now? We need names, please. I wonder what her husband/brother/son thinks of this remark.

[liberty]

What happened to the Bill Clinton standard? He did much worse than is being claimed here and it was not considered important.

[Scooter]

It was apparently seen as important enough to impeach him, or did the village idiot forget that minor detail?

[Crackpot]

He was impeached over Monica lewinski. He got a pass on Jones flowers etc

[RayThom]

What happened to the Bill Clinton standard? He did much worse than is being claimed here and it was not considered important.

Although there may well have been some elements of duress involved -- real or otherwise, the Bill and Monica 'interludes' were, by all indications, consensual. It was never revealed that Clinton strong-armed or threatened her into doing the deed. More like an adult star-stuck fan wanting to feel needed by her "rock star" idol. Smarmy and undignified of the office of POTUS, yes -- illegal, no.

Disagree? Fine. But it certainly doesn't meet the standards of sexual molestation, or sexual abuse, or possible statutory rape. What Kavanaugh is being accused of, does.

Kavanaugh's conduct deserves an investigation.

[BoSoxGal]

I think he’s thinking of this lady’s accusation: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juanita_Broaddrick

[Lord Jim]

Personally I took the Broadrick allegation very seriously and considered her (and still do) to be very credible (there was an established record of her telling multiple people about the attack at the time it happened, travel, lodging and schedule records showed her and Clinton to be exactly where she said they were when she said they were there, and she never attempted to make any money off of the case.)

But that all came up after Clinton had been re-elected, and nobody is proposing he be appointed to any public post, so bringing it up now looks like nothing but a pure whataboutism distraction...

[Jarlaxle]

He was impeached over Monica lewinski. He got a pass on Jones flowers etc

No, he was impeached (and ultimately disbarred) for lying under oath about it.

[Lord Jim]

He was also impeached for obstruction of justice, which despite what Rudy The Clown says is a highly impeachable offense...

[wesw]

it seems that the cheese stands alone......

all of the women thru out kavanaughs life seem to stand with him and all of the named people, by the good doctor don t seem to know what she is talking about.

and the one seeming corroboration has been recanted

if the good doctor is so shaken up over this alleged incident, 36 yrs past, she would seem to be an unlikely person to seek psychological advice from.

maybe the therapists therapist can get some therapy to allow them to handle the rigors of therapy and all that that entails.

I m sure that in the fullness of time, and with all possible haste, and without hurrying, we can come to a reasonable understanding of the reasonableness of all of thee alleged accusations and possible denials, thus allowing for a clear resolution, as far as is possible, of this alleged event and possible testimony and debate that could possibly follow...., if time allows....

[RayThom]

it seems that the cheese stands alone......

all of the women thru out kavanaughs life seem to stand with him and all of the named people, by the good doctor don t seem to know what she is talking about.

and the one seeming corroboration has been recanted

if the good doctor is so shaken up over this alleged incident, 36 yrs past, she would seem to be an unlikely person to seek psychological advice from.

maybe the therapists therapist can get some therapy to allow them to handle the rigors of therapy and all that that entails.

I m sure that in the fullness of time, and with all possible haste, and without hurrying, we can come to a reasonable understanding of the reasonableness of all of thee alleged accusations and possible denials, thus allowing for a clear resolution, as far as is possible, of this alleged event and possible testimony and debate that could possibly follow...., if time allows....

so you say.

we ll see.