We don't Obamacare

[Scooter]

She didn't say your children, she was talking about Congress. Wishing cancer on their children isn't right. What would be more just, would be eliminating the Congressional health plan and limiting their use of health care to whatever would be covered by Medicaid. Whether their children suffer as a result would be entirely within their power to avert - their families will get good insurance coverage when all Americans have good insurance coverage. BSG's remark, unworthy of her as it was, comes from knowing that Republicans will never get serious about coverage for everyone until they have skin in the game. And they won't have skin in the game with that gold plated health care plan on top of their considerable financial resources.

And even just this last post makes it apparent that (1) you want everyone to have health care coverage, and (2) you don't want to leave it in the hands of the private insurance market to to sort out how. I would guess that you wouldn't want to throw tens of millions of people, including over 8 million children, under the bus by leaving them without insurance until you found a way to create the system you really want.

In 1993 the Republicans said they could do better than the health care plan that was on the table at the time. They then had six years controlling Congress with a president who proved he could make deals with them, then six years controlling Congress and the presidency. Did you see a health care reform bill come out of Congress in those 12 years? They spent the last 8 eight years saying they could do better than the ACA. Eight years, and they have nothing ready to put on the table? I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you, but if they haven't figured out something better after 20 years, they aren't going to.

You'll never see single payer, because Republicans will never permit (a) private insurers to be pushed off of the gravey train nor (b) the single payer to use the market power that comes with that role to rationalize and reallocate and restrain health care spending (as we saw with Medicare Part D) nor (c) public funding to go to be spent on anything that offends their ideology, even when it demonstrably improves health care outcomes and/or saves money.

[Long Run]

In 1993 the Republicans said they could do better than the health care plan that was on the table at the time. They then had six years controlling Congress with a president who proved he could make deals with them, then six years controlling Congress and the presidency. Did you see a health care reform bill come out of Congress in those 12 years?

Off the top:

HIPAA in 1996 provided portability, eliminating pre-existing condition exclusions when moving from group plan to group plan, among other things.

A year later CHIP was added for lower income kids who were not covered by Medicaid.

Health Savings Accounts were added in 2003 when the drug coverage was added to Medicare. The HSAs added to the health reimbursement accounts and flexible spending accounts (which were added/amended either by statute or regulation during this time). The HSA/HRA/FSA were all part of the effort to bring accountability to medical expenditures. The HSA has been a significant factor in bringing down the rate of increase in medical expenses by eliminating third party (insurer) oversight of routine medical expenses that are now paid for out of the HSA rather than by the insurer.

There was also flexibility within the HHS to allow states to try to stretch their Medicaid dollars.

You can like or dislike these reforms, but they were each significant in their way, and helped to solve various issues without the dislocation caused by substantial overhauls like the ACA. These laws also show, that despite the current hyperventilation about the repeal of the ACA (i.e., that the R's, once they stop kicking puppies and pushing old folks into traffic, will gleefully take away healthcare for 20 million people), there will be serious people making serious efforts to limit the dislocation.

[BoSoxGal]

dales, consider that you don't really know me - or about my three babies who all died and whose deaths I mourn with every fiber of my being with every breath I take in this life and that dealing with that despairing grief makes life incredibly torturous much of the time and that when some arrogant dickhead says 'you don't have children so you don't know' every time I've ever participated in any discussion about children here and hearing that just makes me want to commit suicide but only after first committing some homicide of ignorant thoughtless fucks who hurt people without considering for JUST ONE SECOND that they maybe ought not assume they know why a childless person is childless . . . oh and also I have nieces and nephews and grand-nephews who I love fiercely and who don't deserve to be without healthcare because they have preexisting conditions or their parents are self-employed and without affordable coverage until ACA and now back to nothing so maybe THAT helps you understand my level of anger?!

Of course I don't actually wish harm on any child in this world but this world is cruel and heartless and if children have to die of incurable cancer at all, it would be justice for some of those children to be the children of heartless fuckwits who don't care one little bit about the 30 million Americans, 8-10 million of them innocent kids, who are being thrown to the for-profit healthcare industry wolves because these REPUBLICANS want to serve up giant tax cuts to their scummy corporate CEO, hedge fund manager, etc. overlords.

I've spent 46 years on this planet barely saying shit if I had a mouthful, always trying to please other people and/or solve their problems and care for them ahead of myself - and now I'm not giving a fuck anymore and I'm going to say and do whatever I damn well please. I do not care whether I 'win' the approval of anybody on this message board, or anywhere else in the world. Fuck that, it's a stupid waste of time and completely pointless. If there is a supreme being then it already knows I have a good heart, and if as I suspect there is not, it doesn't really matter.

[dales]

dales, consider that you don't really know me - or about my three babies who all died and whose deaths I mourn with every fiber of my being with every breath I take in this life and that dealing with that despairing grief makes life incredibly torturous much of the time ....

Then wishing the deaths of other's children is troubling and confusing.

[Econoline]

Back on topic....Even Lots of Republicans Think the Feds Should Guarantee Health Care For All:

Republicans have been chanting "repeal and replace" for so long that people have started to believe the "replace" part. Even among Republicans, half of those with working-class incomes and a third of those with middle-class incomes believe the federal government ought to guarantee health coverage for everyone. It's only rich Republicans who are dead set against it.

So what is Donald Trump going to do about that? Unfortunately, the answer is pretty obvious: he's going to propose a replacement plan that does hardly anything for anyone and then he's going to lie about it—loudly and relentlessly. Congressional Republicans will all join in, and the press will then report that the effect of the replacement plan is "controversial." Because, really, who can say what it does? All those numbers are pretty confusing, after all.

[BoSoxGal]

dales, consider that you don't really know me - or about my three babies who all died and whose deaths I mourn with every fiber of my being with every breath I take in this life and that dealing with that despairing grief makes life incredibly torturous much of the time ....

Then wishing the deaths of other's children is troubling and confusing.

Again, you can shove your amateur psychoanalysis up your ass.

And I have no doubt you'll again throw my 'issues' in my face when I post an opinion contrary to yours, as you've done before.

Which of us is truly troubled? That's pretty clear to me.

[Sue U]

So what is Donald Trump going to do about that? Unfortunately, the answer is pretty obvious: he's going to propose a replacement plan that does hardly anything for anyone and then he's going to lie about it—loudly and relentlessly. Congressional Republicans will all join in, and the press will then report that the effect of the replacement plan is "controversial." Because, really, who can say what it does? All those numbers are pretty confusing, after all.

This is everything in a depressing nutshell.

[Big RR]

Come on, he's going to be the greatest health insurance plan designer that god ever created and it will be so good; just ask him.

[Guinevere]

See my post in the other thread. His House Majority leader thinks it's all "mumbo jumbo."

[Big RR]

That's just his jealousy of the uberman. god's anointed president who was created to lead us all into property. Just ask Trump--he knows all.

[Lord Jim]

I'm waiting for the bit where we start winning so much that we get sick of winning...

[Big RR]

Well I'm sick of the "winner".

[Sue U]

I'm waiting for the bit where we start winning so much that we get sick of winning...

Winning the vote to repeal Obamacare will make 20 or 30 million of us sick for starters.

[Guinevere]

And about 30,000 of us dead.

[Bicycle Bill]

That's just his jealousy of the uberman. god's anointed president who was created to lead us all into property. Just ask Trump--he knows all.

Don't you mean, "... to lead us all into where we are just property"?

♯♫♪ I owe my soul to the company store.... ♪♯♫

-"BB"-

[Sue U]

Republicans are having such a difficult time coming up with a replacement for Obamacare because Obamacare essentially is the Republican plan crafted by the Heritage Foundation nearly 25 years ago. Any effective fix -- especially with respect to cost controls -- would necessarily require stepping toward an actual program of socialized healthcare.

The fact is, there are certain sectors of the economy, like healthcare, that are just not appropriate for capitalism -- at least not if your nation's social values include preservation of human life and health as a priority. The GOP's perverse insistence on "free market" healthcare financing/delivery "solutions" demonstrates exactly where its priorities are.

[Big RR]

You hit it on the nose there Sue; sadly, it is not only the republicans, Obama and many dems courted the big pharma companies for their support with that same message. And it's this lack of cost controls that leads to the biggest drawbacks of the current system.

[BoSoxGal]

I woke up early this morning and read this article from my NPR newsfeed; it's a bit longish, but I think every responsible citizen should know what's in it, because it shows how absolutely sick and twisted our current for profit pharmaceutical industry truly is:

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shot ... monopolies

[dales]

Again, you can shove your amateur psychoanalysis up your ass.

It's only an observation, it looks to me by your response, that it was spot on!

And all my best to you, Karla B. !

And I have no doubt you'll again throw my 'issues' in my face when I post an opinion contrary to yours, as you've done before.

On the contrary, it wasn't your opinion but your profane-laden posts that that sparked my response.

Get it?

[BoSoxGal]

You have troubling boundaries, dales. I peg you, correctly I'm certain, as an abusive personality.

If you aren't, then prove it by never addresssing me on a personal level again, at my request. I will never be engaging you on any level here again, so should you continue to comment on my posts with your nasty personal attacks and repeated insinuations about my mental health, I'm fair sure you will also be proving yourself to others here as an abusive personality.

Time will tell and it's all on you now. Buh bye.