Why we did not "Wait and See"

[Big RR]

is assassination worse than resignation due to the pressure of blackmailing Russians? I would think a chief executive caving to foreign pressure would be worse, but that's just me.

[Lord Jim]

Maybe I'm misreading what was posted, but I don't think the intent was to say that the Russians would blackmail him into resigning, (why on earth would they want somebody they were controlling through blackmail to quit?) but that he would be forced to resign because the fact that the Russians were blackmailing him would become so well proven that public pressure would force him out.

[wesw]

well I prefer to leave Russian intrigue AND murder out of my fantasies.......

I prefer nekkid people or wilderness if I m gonna fantasize.....

of course that doesn t leave out Russia completely ...., the taiga and a tall blonde russain lass will work just fine.....

....careful, love, the tiger still roams this forest...., let us speak softly lest he hear us.... even I fear the the tiger.....

back to reality...., does anyone think that the ruskies don t have a file the size of a small car on billary?

[Big RR]

but that he would be forced to resign because the fact that the Russians were blackmailing him would become so well proven that public pressure would force him out.

I'm not sure that this is much better than my interpretation, and IMHO would be worse than assassination.

does anyone think that the ruskies don t have a file the size of a small car on billary?

I presume you mean bill and Hillary Clinton (I don't go in for that entertainment tonight style speak); but maybe a large car or even a tractor trailer--so?

[wesw]

I m only saying that I believe bill and Hillary to be much more vulnerable to blackmail than trump.

for one, I think that they are dirtier, and secondly, trump doesn t really seem to give a rat s ass and would be more likely to tell them to fuck off, and release the dirt himself, and then send a few brigades to the Baltics for good measure

[wesw]

so..., as far as your response to jim....

you are saying that you feel murdering an elected president is better than him being forced out popular demand?

I can t quite wrap my head around that.

unless you wish our republic to end, and I don t believe that that is true...., so I m flummoxed

[Big RR]

Your first point is not the subject of this thread, so I will not comment; your second point is unlikely as Trump is actively seeking working together with Putin and may well owe his victory to him--he wouldn't tell him to fuck off (not to mention that Trump is much more concerned about his image than any politician I can think of--his extended bitching about how many people were at the inauguration alone demonstrates this); your third point doesn't appear to be true--bill wasn't shut up in the 90s, and Hillary has continued to be very vocal with positions I doubt Putin likes very much.

you are saying that you feel murdering an elected president is better than him being forced out popular demand?

when that demand is based on the interference of a foreign power, yes; neither alternative is good, but I think foreign interference is much more problematic than a lone gunman (or even one hired by a foreign government). If a foreign government can do something to sway public opinion that much (recognizing only one president in history has resigned), then I would have serious concerns for a nation as a whole.

[wesw]

well, you already commented on it...., but I ll leave the topic policing to you....

as far as your second point....

wow. just wow. I disagree vehemently .

i don t think that i will be able to call you the voice of reason for awhile....

i think i ll go back to the Taiga....

...or some isolated beach in the worlds largest estuary....

way to ruin my day , RR....

thanks a lot....

[Big RR]

I could say the same thing; you think effective foreign manipulation or our electorate to force a resignation of a president (something which has occurred only one time in history to date) is less of a concern than an assassination of a president (something that has been accomplished successfully at least 4 times in history and come damn close to a few more times)? Neither is a good alternative, but if a foreign can successfully manipulate our electorate I fear for the republic much more because this reveals a fatal flaw in our democratic system. Sorry if my position depresses you or ruins your day.

[Lord Jim]

I m only saying that I believe bill and Hillary to be much more vulnerable to blackmail than trump.

Well at least as far as the Russians and Putin are concerned that must be pure horseshit, since there was only one candidate in the election shilling for Putin, and it wasn't Hillary...

[wesw]

seems to me that if putin was behind WikiLeaks, he would save a good bit of juicy dirt until he could hold it over Hillary s head after her erstwhile election....

shilling for trump, shilling for Clinton....

shilling for senate?

against lizzie "Pocahontas" borden?

strange times..., strange times.....

[wesw]

I d say that assassination by a foreign govt is about as manipulative of our prcess as you can get.

I don t accept your premise anyway, but still....

[Big RR]

My point is this--anyone can assassinate a president, or a t least have a pretty good chance of doing so, if they are willing to sacrifice their on life if need be. Some succeed, some do not (like Hinkley or Squeaky Fromme), but it can be done. Manipulating the electorate is a different matter and if a foreign government can successfully manipulate the electorate to the degree of getting them to force a president from office, then our democracy is doomed (I'm not sure one can, but if they could, what defense do we have?).

[RayThom]

Or... maybe Barron will go "postal" on the parental units. Anything is possible.

[wesw]

my point is that the people who voted for trump are aware of your premise, understand your premise, and are not swayed by your argument.

in fact they find it insulting, as they do the dishonest reporting from outlets like CNN and MSNBC.

we ve listened, we are informed and we voted.

if we are proved wrong, and you right we will adapt accordingly.

we like what we see, mostly, and want to be positive.

no one that I know wants to disenfranchise anyone, white black or womyn..., or zees....

sure there are some folks that do, who are racist, but the left has the black militants and CAIR on their side....

just the idea that you consider us "manipulated" is insulting, and those that compare trump to hitler are the most insulting to guys like me.

we disagree, preferably as brothers. elections come and go..., I think that America should remain, don t you?

[Big RR]

Ray--Wouldn't that be grandparental units?

and wes--did I say anything about Trump supporters and manipulation? No, what I said is that I would find it to be a very serious concern if a foreign power could manipulate a sufficient portion of the American population to seek removal of a president by releasing material they were blackmailing him/her with. If that can be done, the vote pretty much becomes meaningless. Nothing about this election or why Trump was elected--we are dealing in hypotheticals.

[wesw]

ok.... let s leave the hypothetical for a moment....

let us consider the Access Hollywood" release..., the pussy clip.....

that, and the rapidfire coming forward of 12 not quite believable stories from 12 women, with good lawyers...., who promptly disappeared from the stage after their un substantiated claims.....

they just went away.....

this , to guys like me was an attempt to manipulate the electorate and I certainly believe that it is a well coordinated effort.

I also believe that George soros weave a web of manipulation that is not right and does not have the country s best interests at heart.

just another angle for you to see, hopefully.

maybe you are wrong. maybe I am wrong

maybe trump can be blackmailed, but I doubt it.

[Joe Guy]

Ray--Wouldn't that be grandparental units?

(Pinch hitting for RayThom)

Barron Trump, 10, will be the first boy in the White House since John F. Kennedy Jr. cleveland.com

Born: March 20, 2006 (age 10), Manhattan, New York City, NY

Parents: Donald Trump, Melania Trump

Siblings: Ivanka Trump, Tiffany Trump, Eric Trump, Donald Trump Jr.

[Big RR]

There's manipulation and then there's manipulation on a grand scale. To manipulate a sufficient proportion of the population to call for the resignation of a president, even an unpopular one, is pretty next to impossible IMHO, and if it could be done I would be very concerned. Smaller numbers (and I won't comment on the particular examples), it's been done before and it will be done again.

Joe--shows how much attention I pay to the trivial--I just assumed it was his grandson.

[Bicycle Bill]

I see wes has been busy yesterday and this morning.

and yet still you fantasize about the worst of these.....

E-line said "...It would be nice if Pence replaced Trump, and then someone a bit more sane replaced Pence as VP--and *THEN* 'something happened' to Pence..."

"Something happening" covers a vast number of possibilities.  YOU'RE the one who brought up removal by assassination....

I m only saying that I believe bill and Hillary to be much more vulnerable to blackmail than trump.

for one, I think that they are dirtier, and secondly, trump doesn t really seem to give a rat s ass and would be more likely to tell them to fuck off, and release the dirt himself, and then send a few brigades to the Baltics for good measure

In order for blackmail to work, the blackmailee must be in a position to lose something of value — money, reputation, power, whatever — and also be in a position to deliver something that the blackmailer wants.

Hillary is a defeated Presidential candidate and holds no position in government, so she has nothing to lose and has nothing at this time the Russians want or need.... and no matter what happens now Bill is always going to have been the 42nd POTUS and in the words of the song, "They can't take that away from me". As a former POTUS he does occupy a position as an 'elder statesman' but much like John Nance Garner described the office of VP, that ain't worth a bucket of warm piss.

I think that America should remain, don t you?

Remember my earlier comparison with current events to the movie "V for Vendetta"?
There's High Chancellor Sutler again ..... "ENGLAND PREVAILS!"

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