The Time Has Come To State The Obvious

[Scooter]

[Lord Jim]

You pull the string at the back, and it churns out a limited number of stock phrases.

He reminds me a lot of that toy, does our rube.

The difference of course being that rube pulls his own string....

[Lord Jim]

and you could devise a cost effective way to collect the funds


That's not hard. Wire transfer companies and banks already report over a certain $ amount being transferred. Large cash deposits are too (above 10k or 15k IIRC). Lower the amount required to report on out of country wire transfers.

Ahh, but oldr, you're not taking into account that vicious bitch who will not be denied, The Law Of Unintended Consequences...

You're assuming that if this fee is slapped on that people will just continue to do things the same way they are doing them now, but history teaches us that when you increase the cost of doing something people find new ways to do it...

The current proposal calls for assessing the fee on wire transfers where the person cannot provide proof of legal status... (if you tried to apply this to citizens, you would have a whole host of additional legal and political problems)

If you do this, many people will find relatives or friends who are citizens to make the transfers for them, and many others will use the multitude of ways to transfer money that exist now that don't involve banks or wire services (services like PayPal, convert cash to bitcoins, etc.)

So a big chunk of the income you're expecting to collect would be lost right there...

Plus if you're going to make the assessment at the point of transfer, then you have the cost of developing and distributing the software to the transfer businesses that will do this, so you have to factor in that cost. If you're going to mandate that the businesses that do the transfers set it up the system themselves, then you're going to have to let the companies keep a portion of the fees to cover their costs.

If you're not going to develop a new system to assess and collect the fees at the point of transfer, and are just going to rely on the existing reporting function, then you have to create, staff, train and provide resources to an enforcement unit to follow up on the reports. This would obviously add enormously to the cost of the program, and also has to be factored in.

You're also creating a whole new criminal class ( people seeking to get around paying the fee and those who are helping them do it) who presumably have to be arrested, charged, tried, and (if convicted) incarcerated for violating the new law.

This is another huge cost that has to be factored in...

And then their are the secondary costs to the government created by investigating, arresting, prosecuting, and incarcerating these new criminals. (Like having to place their children in state funded foster care, or provide government benefits to families whose primary bread-winner has been jailed for helping an illegal alien relative send money back home.)

When you consider the loss of projected revenue from people who get around the law, and all the costs involved in enforcing the law, it's entirely possible that this system could wind up costing more than the revenue it generates...

As a conservative, I'm very much opposed to government income generating schemes that cost the taxpayers more than they bring in...

will create a larger flow of illegal aliens into this country


Build that wall, either physically or electronically, preferably both.

The bipartisan comprehensive immigration bill that was passed by the Senate in 2013 provided for a border security system far better than what exists today. A system that included a wall on some portions of the border, a fence at others, enhanced electronic and drone surveillance, and a big boost in border patrol staffing. It's a damn shame that John Boehner couldn't find the political courage to put that bill on the House floor, where it likely would have garnered enough GOP votes to pass. (And if he had done that, there's a good chance we wouldn't have Donald Trump as President, since he wouldn't have had the immigration issue to demagogue to launch his Presidential bid.)

Look, I certainly do not agree with Guin regarding just making all the illegal aliens citizens. (though considering the fact that 71% of Latino voters voted Democratic in the last election, it's understandable why someone active in Democratic politics would be happy to wave a magic wand and instantly create millions of newly minted Democratic voters )

But we need realistic solutions that will address both the moral issues of fairness, (you're absolutely right in saying that people who broke our laws to come here have no right to be provided instant citizenship ahead of those seeking to immigrate here legally) and deals with the practical realities of the situation that exists.

We need an approach that is neither completely unfair nor wildly impractical...

[Jarlaxle]

Simply tax (at 50+ or more) any and ALL money transfers to Mexico. Punish evading said tax with huge penalties (mandatory 10 years in prison and seizure of all assets, say), and people WILL comply. Make examples of a few scofflaws and the rest will fall into line.

[wesw]

border toll for anyone who doesn t an American driver s license.....

[Bicycle Bill]

Simply tax (at 50+ or more) any and ALL money transfers to Mexico. Punish evading said tax with huge penalties (mandatory 10 years in prison and seizure of all assets, say), and people WILL comply. Make examples of a few scofflaws and the rest will fall into line.

But of course.  Make examples of some lawbreakers with long prison terms and Draconian penalties — why didn't we think of it sooner?
After all, that same concept worked so well in the war against drugs.

-"BB"-

[Guinevere]

Also happens to be in violation of oh, multiple articles and amendments of the Constitution.

JFC. Will you people just READ THE DAMN THING. And yes, send a copy to your King Trumpanzee, and his advisors, too.

[Jarlaxle]

Also happens to be in violation of oh, multiple articles and amendments of the Constitution.

JFC. Will you people just READ THE DAMN THING. And yes, send a copy to your King Trumpanzee, and his advisors, too.

Which ones? Be specific.

[Jarlaxle]

Simply tax (at 50+ or more) any and ALL money transfers to Mexico. Punish evading said tax with huge penalties (mandatory 10 years in prison and seizure of all assets, say), and people WILL comply. Make examples of a few scofflaws and the rest will fall into line.

But of course.  Make examples of some lawbreakers with long prison terms and Draconian penalties — why didn't we think of it sooner?
After all, that same concept worked so well in the war against drugs.

-"BB"-

DIshonest comparison. People will take much larger risks for a fortune in drug money than they will to wire $200 to Jose in Mexico City.

And the ones to hit are not the ones paying to send money...the ones to hit are the people SENDING it. That is: the ones working for WU. THEY have a lot more to lose.

[wesw]

we ll just wait and see what the Supremes have to say about it......

half of you lawyers are arguing the wrong side of the argument in every contested case....


if trump serves 8 yrs and then pence gets 4-8 yrs in office.....

Wow! the supreme court sure is gonna look different......

and when the Dems obstruct the nominees and the GOP changes the filibuster rules, and the hold rules, for EVERYTHING, in response.... well....

that ll just be a mess won t it?

maybe you d better get with the program..... don t be obstructionist just for the sake of it.

trump is getting more and more black support everyday... jim brown is a biggie. you just can t call jim brown a "mediocre negro" and not lose support.... Nazi nigger next?

you are losing the private unions. the rank and file, and now the leadership is on the trump train.

the public sector unions are likely to be broken, especially the teacher s unions.

the industrial leaders have bought tickets on the trump train....

and oh yeah.... that little foray into west Virginia was soooooo clueless....

Bernie and lizzie "Pocahontas" borden, preachin' to the choir thru megaphones? priceless....

....and the takeaway was that we just have to do a better job educating these poor hillbillies so that they know that we are right and that they are wrong...



god forbid that your side could actually learn eanything

it s is hard to learn when you believe that you already know everything, I d guess....

your bubble is translucent, at best.

sad.

sincerely,

the Delmarva squirrely fox

[Guinevere]

Separation of Powers
Privileges and Immunities
Commerce Clause
1st Amendment
5th Amendment
9th Amendment
11th Amendment
14th Amendment
16th Amendment

And that's just off the top of my head.

[wesw]

he asked you to be specific....


wow.

magna carta.
Hammurabi
Solomon...



what is your point counselor?

[wesw]

the violation and the specific wording that makes it unconstitutional , is what I think that he was looking for...

[Lord Jim]

the violation and the specific wording that makes it unconstitutional

Why should she bother to go to all that trouble, when all that will do is invite one of your brilliant, well-reasoned "responses" like "you're full of shit"?

Your "thought process" is identical to rube's wes....

You start with your pre-conceived conclusions and then whenever presented with information that disproves those beliefs, you stick your fingers in your ears and go "la la la la la"....

[wesw]

if she wants to shout "unconstitutional", why shouldn t she be asked to support her claims?



#lawyers

[wesw]

#full o' shit

[rubato]

if she wants to shout "unconstitutional", why shouldn t she be asked to support her claims?



#lawyers

Why is it so difficult for you to read the parts of the constitution cited and understand them?



yrs,
rubato

[ex-khobar Andy]

Wow. There is so much here.

Jarlaxle's

Simply tax (at 50+ or more) any and ALL money transfers to Mexico. Punish evading said tax with huge penalties (mandatory 10 years in prison and seizure of all assets, say), and people WILL comply. Make examples of a few scofflaws and the rest will fall into line.

Apart from Guin's very reasonable 'because it's illegal' post, what happens when the rest of the world gets hold of this? So the Arab Gulf countries, which depend so much on American expertise, and who are in a bit of a bind because oil at $50/bbl is nowhere near balancing their budgets, start taxing Americans on their remittances.

And suppose DT starts taxing avocados. The average avocado from Mexico is probably $0.40 at the border. I bought two this morning at $0.58 so maybe it's a bit less. 20% means that the cost to the supermarket and the consumer goes up by $0.08. I am not sure that will change my avocado buying habits because that is well within the price noise. And if my avocado salad at Ruby Tuesday's goes up from $8.99 to $9.07 guess who is paying for the fucking wall, Mr. T? (Hint: it's not who you think . . .)

And wes's

Wow! the supreme court sure is gonna look different......

Let me see if I have this right. Democrats win 6 of the last 7 Presidential elections on the popular vote. Yet somehow we will have a alt-right SCOTUS for a generation? I tell you who else might be pissed off with that unintended consequence and that is Antonin Scalia who may have been wrong on so much, but who could never be accused of overlooking stupidity.

[rubato]

Orwell was a genius.

"Beliefs come first" is the description of how most people's minds are composed and nearly all Republicans. "its true because I just know it" "Iraq has WMD" (even though Hans Blix has been on the ground providing evidence this was false. For months).

Science teaches you the opposite. Data comes first. But it is a discipline and it takes time, work, and intellectual honesty. And not all people nominally in the sciences achieve it.



yrs,
rubato

[Lord Jim]