The A.G. Sure Is A Horse's Ass!

[dales]

Anyone tried vaping pot?

I've been told you get all the "fun" without inhaling smoke, allegedly.

Yes.

I'm old skool, I'd rather have the smoke. Vaping seems a little "clinical" to me.

Then again, there are always edibles

[BoSoxGal]

I want to get the equipment to vape, just have to get the cash together sometime when other needs aren't more pressing. I worry about smoking because COPD runs in my family and I've stupidly been a social smoker on and off in my adult life (more off than on, but still) and I was raised in a 4-packs-a-day household and driven around in second-hand-smoke-filled automobiles, so I figure I should give my lungs a break as much as possible. At the moment I'm using a bubbler to cut down on the harsh factor. I'd love to have edibles, but it's going to be another year before we have some decent dispensaries here in not-so-Grassachusetts thanks to our puritanical legislature undermining the will of the people and postponing full implementation of our new recreational marijuana law.

[BoSoxGal]

Is marijuana addictive?

Marijuana use can lead to the development of problem use, known as a marijuana use disorder, which takes the form of addiction in severe cases. Recent data suggest that 30 percent of those who use marijuana may have some degree of marijuana use disorder.18 People who begin using marijuana before the age of 18 are four to seven times more likely to develop a marijuana use disorder than adults.19

Marijuana use disorders are often associated with dependence—in which a person feels withdrawal symptoms when not taking the drug. People who use marijuana frequently often report irritability, mood and sleep difficulties, decreased appetite, cravings, restlessness, and/or various forms of physical discomfort that peak within the first week after quitting and last up to 2 weeks.20,21 Marijuana dependence occurs when the brain adapts to large amounts of the drug by reducing production of and sensitivity to its own endocannabinoid neurotransmitters.22,23

Marijuana use disorder becomes addiction when the person cannot stop using the drug even though it interferes with many aspects of his or her life. Estimates of the number of people addicted to marijuana are controversial, in part because epidemiological studies of substance use often use dependence as a proxy for addiction even though it is possible to be dependent without being addicted. Those studies suggest that 9 percent of people who use marijuana will become dependent on it,24,25 rising to about 17 percent in those who start using in their teens.26,27

In 2015, about 4.0 million people in the United States used or were dependent on marijuana;3 138,000 voluntarily sought treatment for their marijuana use.28
Rising Potency

Marijuana potency, as detected in confiscated samples, has steadily increased over the past few decades.2 In the early 1990s, the average THC content in confiscated marijuana samples was roughly 3.7 percent. In 2014, it was 6.1 percent.29 Also, newly popular methods of smoking or eating THC-rich hash oil extracted from the marijuana plant (a practice called dabbing) may deliver very high levels of THC to the person. The average marijuana extract contains more than 50 percent THC, with some samples exceeding 80 percent. These trends raise concerns that the consequences of marijuana use could be worse than in the past, particularly among those who are new to marijuana use or in young people, whose brains are still developing (see "What are marijuana’s long-term effects on the brain?").

Researchers do not yet know the full extent of the consequences when the body and brain (especially the developing brain) are exposed to high concentrations of THC or whether the recent increases in emergency department visits by people testing positive for marijuana are related to rising potency. The extent to which people adjust for increased potency by using less or by smoking it differently is also unknown. Recent studies suggest that experienced people may adjust the amount they smoke and how much they inhale based on the believed strength of the marijuana they are using, but they are not able to fully compensate for variations in potency.30,31

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/ ... -addictive

Marijuana use disorder isn't addiction like the brain/body becomes addicted to opioids or alcohol. You can DIE detoxing from alcohol or opioids without proper supportive care. Not so marijuana 'detox'.

And how the fuck can we trust ANY 'studies' that come from the government?! They PROHIBIT marijuana, their official policy is that marijuana is a Schedule I drug.

I haven't checked all the footnotes in your pasted article, but I seriously suggest you read Earlywine's book for a fair and balanced overview of the science of marijuana from sources worldwide. And FYI, the book is actually scientific - it's not some pro-pot weed culture propaganda.

[Guinevere]

I assume you can get a prescription, and there is a medical dispensary not far from you in Brockton.

The deadline on implementing the non-medical law was extended by 6 months not because the legislature is puritanical, but because the ballot question was poorly drafted (with contradictory and confusing provision) by lawyers who know shit about Massachusetts law and had zero interest in doing anything but promoting their own clients (the dispensaries) interests. It also creates an entirely new regulatory scheme and an entirely new agency that has no computers, paperclips, people or budget. And finally, the law as written conflicts with the right to self-determination, aka Home Rule, for cities and towns, as set forth in the Massachusetts Constitution. All of that needs to be sorted out by the legislature and the new agency, before non-medical facilities can be licensed and start operating. Plus what the Feds do may tank the entire industry. Better to get it right the first time, and in any event the medical dispensaries are the real key, and they are up and running, with more facilities being licensed regularly.

[Guinevere]

Anyone tried vaping pot?

I've been told you get all the "fun" without inhaling smoke, allegedly.

My best friend and her Mom each use medical for different conditions. Her Mom vapes because she can't smoke (she has COPD and other lung ailments). They also both use edibles - but they are expensive.

[oldr_n_wsr]

MOST opiod addicts got that way via prescribed use - or using someone else's prescription recreationally - then switching to heroin when pills were too expensive or hard to find.

I don't think that is true. It's been my experience that while some started on pills, they were not prescribed to the addict. They were "taken" (aka stolen) or bought on the black market. Only after being hooked did they switch to heroin for monetary reasons. Many more (in my very informal and unscientific study) bypassed the prescription opiods (especially in the last couple of years as the opioid addiction crisis widened and pill prices skyrocketed) and went right to heroin.

From here
https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/heroin

While prescription opioid misuse is a risk factor for starting heroin use, only a small fraction of people who misuse pain relievers switch to heroin. According to a national survey, less than 4 percent of people who had misused prescription pain medicines started using heroin within 5 years.1 This suggests that prescription opioid misuse is just one factor leading to heroin use. Read more about this intertwined problem in our Prescription Opioids and Heroin Research Report.

Marijuana IS NOT physically addictive. Period!

I'll take what Long Runs post says over your proclamation.

Marijuana use disorder becomes addiction when the person cannot stop using the drug even though it interferes with many aspects of his or her life. Estimates of the number of people addicted to marijuana are controversial, in part because epidemiological studies of substance use often use dependence as a proxy for addiction even though it is possible to be dependent without being addicted. Those studies suggest that 9 percent of people who use marijuana will become dependent on it,24,25 rising to about 17 percent in those who start using in their teens.26,27

Oh for pity's sake there are millions of marijuana users who never use any stronger drugs.

And there are millions of alcohol drinkers who never become alcoholics nor drug addicts. Only about 15% of drinkers become "real" alcoholics.

All addicts - whether addicted to the above, or alcohol, or food - need treatment, not incarceration.

Have I ever argued otherwise?

For the record, I don't think pot should be illegal. I believe it should be on par with alcohol.

I recognize it works for some, but overall the success rate is abysmal - but it has become so entrenched in the treatment community that it has served as an obstacle to developing different and perhaps better approaches for the 85% of people it fails.

And when you delve into it, rehabs are no better.

from here:
http://americanaddictioncenters.org/reh ... tatistics/

The therapeutic community claims a 30% success rate, but they only count people who complete the program.” Califano adds that the other 70-80 percent have dropped out by the 3-6 month marker.

And that's only 6 months out.

oldr, I'm not dismissing what you've heard in the rooms but I'm well acquainted with addicts and I know they make a lot of excuses for themselves, even while 'successfully' working the steps.

If they are still making "excuses for themselves", they are not working the steps (IMHO).

(My true feelings about AA is for another conversation; I recognize it works for some, but overall the success rate is abysmal - but it has become so entrenched in the treatment community that it has served as an obstacle to developing different and perhaps better approaches for the 85% of people it fails.)

Even rehabs urge going to 12 step programs after leaving the facility along with other follow-up care, out patient rehab, counseling, therapy, etc.
I learned a lot in out-patient and it has helped, but not as much as "doing" AA. But that is my experience, not everyones.

There is no "one size fits all" and AA nor the other anonymous programs never claim to be the only game in town . RayThom's recovery is vastly different from mine, both approaches worked for the individual.

[Big RR]

Only about 15% of drinkers become "real" alcoholics.

where is that statistic from oldr? Since most people drink at least occasionally, does this mean 15% or all people are "real" alcoholics? That would mean 1 of every 6 or 7 people? That seems pretty high.

[BoSoxGal]

Getting a medical mj card costs $250, then on top of that you get to pay the premium prices charged at the dispensary for medicine insurance won't cover.

I have a connection to dispensary grade marijuana at reasonable cost. Sometimes I have to go for a while without, but that is the plight of the poor in general.

[oldr_n_wsr]

Approximately 17 percent of men and 8 percent of women will be dependent on alcohol in their lifetime. - See more at: https://talbottcampus.com/2015-alcoholi ... AiEcS.dpuf

From here
https://talbottcampus.com/2015-alcoholism-statistics/

I heard the 15-20% on an AA tape.

I have seen stats as low as 7-8%

From here
https://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications ... &Stats.pdf

Alcohol Use Disorder (AUD) in the United States:
»»
Adults (ages 18+): According to the 2015 NSDUH, 15.1 million adults ages 18 and older3
(6.2 percent of this age group4) had AUD. This includes 9.8 million men3 (8.4 percent of men
in this age group4) and 5.3 million women3 (4.2 percent of women in this age group4).
•
About 1.3 million adults received treatment for AUD at a specialized facility in 2015 (8.3 percent of adults who needed treatment).5 This included 898,000 men5 (8.8 percent of men who needed treatment) and 417,000 women (7.5 percent of women who needed treatment).5
»»
Youth (ages 12–17): According to the 2015 NSDUH, an estimated 623,000 adolescents
ages 12–176 (2.5 percent of this age group7) had AUD. This number includes 298,000
males6 (2.3 percent of males in this age group7) and 325,000 females6 (2.7 percent of
females in this age group7).
•
An estimated 37,000 adolescents (22,000 males and 15,000 females) received treatment for an alcohol problem in a specialized facility in 2015.8

I think the disparate percentages are on how they define "alcoholic".

[Guinevere]

It's $50 (annually), and can be waived with proof of financial hardship. I linked the form below.

http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/docs/dph/qual ... ration.pdf

You can also home grow now, under the non-medical law (and that provision is effective now). I believe 6 plants per adult. I have no idea how much it costs to cultivate your own, but that's another option.

[oldr_n_wsr]

when mom had cancer I supplied her with plenty of pot.
Helped her appetite during chemo which kept her weight and strength up.
But in the end, she died of the cancer anyway.
Miss you mom.


She was also an alcoholic. Sober for eight years before she died.

[dales]

Getting a medical mj card costs $250, then on top of that you get to pay the premium prices charged at the dispensary for medicine insurance won't cover.

I have a connection to dispensary grade marijuana at reasonable cost. Sometimes I have to go for a while without, but that is the plight of the poor in general.

I dunno what prices MJ are on the east coast.

My card costs me around $100 and I can go to the dispensary in Berkeley a buy and eighth ounce for $55.

[BoSoxGal]

It's $50 (annually), and can be waived with proof of financial hardship. I linked the form below.

http://www.mass.gov/eohhs/docs/dph/qual ... ration.pdf

You can also home grow now, under the non-medical law (and that provision is effective now). I believe 6 plants per adult. I have no idea how much it costs to cultivate your own, but that's another option.

Thanks! Looks like based on my income, it would actually be free as I qualify for a hardship waiver.

When I looked it up last May I didn't yet have a doctor and was looking at the marijuana clinic route - that's where it's $245. I don't think I'll have any problem getting my PCP to do the form for me, so hopefully I'll have my card here soon!

And I have a very gifted green thumb, and a close friend back in Montana who had a grow operation under Montana's initial medical marijuana law who can provide guidance.

[Jarlaxle]

Ten years ago...in eastern MA, I could have gotten hydroponic ganja for you. Lemme send a couple emails.

[BoSoxGal]

So much for the hardened misanthrope.

[Jarlaxle]

Nothing yet. Dude I knew can still get it. Unfortunately, he is in Georgia. Other dude he knew died last year. (He was like 80.)

[BoSoxGal]

No worries, let me know if anything comes up.

A friend is visiting and delivering some soon from parts north, and it's always been really good quality - grown for a dispensary. What I most miss about going to a real dispensary - like I did in Montana, with reasonable pricing - was the ability to choose specific strains for sleep aid, pain relief, anxiety relief. It sucks when you just have to use whatever you get; I don't want a make-me-sleepy strain when I want to be productive but need relief from muscle spasms and pain, just like I don't want a strain that gives me an energetic buzz when I'm struggling with insomnia.