Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords shot

[Crackpot]

This is the same wild-assed speculation that goes on with every story of tis type. Every time it happens one side or the other claims bias when it's just the media ratings machine doing what it does.

[Guinevere]

Condemnation of political rhetoric that implies violence is an acceptable political solution should be non-partisan. If we can't agree on that, then we might as well give up.

[Lord Jim]

Look, I've long said that the coarsening of political rhetoric, and the tendency to see people on the other side as "enemies", rather than as "adversaries" has been an extremely negative development over the past couple of decades. (Though to be sure, there have been times in our nation's history where it has been worse) Demonizing the opposition makes it very o get anything done. Who wants to compromise with "traitors"?

Frankly, I find this sort of discourse worse than violence metaphors...

Our language is replete with expressions that come from fire arms; "pot shots", "call to arms", "point blank", "fight fire with fire", "draw a bead on", "targeting", "shoot down", etc.,

But regardless, the whole dialog about appropriate and inappropriate rhetoric becomes difficult when you have one side rush to exploit a tragedy like this for partisan political purposes. (An exploitation totally unjustified by the facts, btw)

The good news is, that aside from this brain dead motor mouth sheriff, (who's comments the partisans have been milking to for all they're worth) most of this exploitation has come from the media and the blogosphere....

So far, at least from the responses I've seen from both sides of the aisle, among elected officials the attitude has been appropriate and responsible. (Of course we haven't heard from Dennis Kucinich or Bernie Sanders yet.)

[BoSoxGal]

Perhaps we should wait and assess the evidence as it is presented to a jury.

Just a thought.

[The Hen]

Its a good thought ... but hardly practical.

[Gob]

Interestingly on the news here last night, they were discussing the level of political rhetoric and discourse in the USA. Yes it was in the light of this shooting, BUT, it highlighted some interesting trends and polarisiation there.

Worthy of a new topic?

[liberty]

This is the same wild-assed speculation that goes on with every story of tis type. Every time it happens one side or the other claims bias when it's just the media ratings machine doing what it does.

Crack, are saying that there is no bias in the news media? I am assuming that you would say that the New York Times is a unbiased news source, but would you say the same about Fox News. I would almost be willing to bet that Fox has more liberals working for them than the New York Times has conservatives on their payroll.

[liberty]

Interestingly on the news here last night, they were discussing the level of political rhetoric and discourse in the USA. Yes it was in the light of this shooting, BUT, it highlighted some interesting trends and polarisiation there.

Worthy of a new topic?

It is bad in my country; the level hatred I pretty high. Liberals hate conservatives and conservatives hate liberals, but believe it or not Gob it has been worse in the past. In the 1850s, a group of religious Yankee were commanded by God to move to Kansas and kill southerners, the children of the devils. They were quite successful and help to establish the mind set that made the War Between The States acceptable.

[rubato]

From what I have read Loughner is mentally ill, schizophrenic, and his actions are best explained by reference to that rather than to any specific ideology.

But while that is true those who use language which a reasonable person could anticipate will encourage violence are morally responsible for that choice as well.

But what I would like to know is why we don't have a legal system which effectively prevents people who have been identified as mentally ill from buying or continuing to have guns? Loughner was expelled from college and was told he could not return w/o a psychiatric release; why did the police not go to his house and take his gun away? They went there to deliver the notice from his school that he could not return?

We need to register guns.

yrs,
rubato

[loCAtek]

Well, it's that 'innocent until proven guilty' thingie, that statistically shows overwhelmingly that diagnosed schizophrenics are not known to be violent.

You can't restrict someone's civil rights for what they might do, (especially when their psych profile doesn't support that behavior ) ...only when they actually commit anti-social behavior, and have been tried in a court of law.

[rubato]

People can be legitimately denied a driving license because they are delusional, have blackouts, seizures, c.

They can be denied the right to possess a handgun.

yrs,
rubato

[loCAtek]

After due process

[The Hen]

Due process should be that the handgun is refused until they can prove they are not as mad a a bag of cut snakes.

[rubato]

"due process" for losing your driving license is that a physician contacts the DMV and says that you are having blackouts.

For mental illness the std should be no greater than this.

Since his behavior was so extreme that he was expelled from CCollege he should have been referred and a presumptive diagnosis made when it was discovered he had a handgun. His behavior was so extreme that the lay people at the CCollege correctly diagnosed that he was mentally ill.

Guns must be registered for this to happen.

yrs,
rubato

[liberty]

"due process" for losing your driving license is that a physician contacts the DMV and says that you are having blackouts.

For mental illness the std should be no greater than this.

Since his behavior was so extreme that he was expelled from CCollege he should have been referred and a presumptive diagnosis made when it was discovered he had a handgun. His behavior was so extreme that the lay people at the CCollege correctly diagnosed that he was mentally ill.

Guns must be registered for this to happen.

yrs,
rubato

I agree Rubato the mentally ill along with other unqualified individuals should not be allowed to own weapons. And I believe there is a constitutional way in which that can be achieved; I would be willing to present my idea if I have the time is available and if anyone is interested, but it does not involve registering guns, but registering people.

[loCAtek]

His behavior was so extreme that the lay people at the CCollege correctly diagnosed that he was mentally ill.

Guns must be registered for this to happen.

yrs,
rubato

They correctly diagnosed he was schizophrenic, and that type of person is usually non-violent. ...unless, they misdiagnosed him and he had an illness that should have had him institutionalized.

[Rick]

Obama made a good speech...

[Lord Jim]

Yes he did.

[liberty]

I agree.

[BoSoxGal]

x4