Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

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Lord Jim
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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by Lord Jim »

Pence did better:

Vice President Mike Pence

@VP

Karen and I send our deepest condolences to Cindy and the entire McCain family on the passing of Senator John McCain. We honor his lifetime of service to this nation in our military and in public life. His family and friends will be in our prayers. God bless John McCain.
6:46 PM - Aug 25, 2018
ETA:

Here are the statements that were issued by the two prior Presidents, both of whom ended McCain's own quests for the Presidency, and both of whom frequently had sharp public policy differences with him...

George W. Bush:
KENNEBUNKPORT, MAINE -- "Some lives are so vivid, it is difficult to imagine them ended. Some voices are so vibrant, it is hard to think of them stilled. John McCain was a man of deep conviction and a patriot of the highest order. He was a public servant in the finest traditions of our country. And to me, he was a friend whom I'll deeply miss. Laura and I send our heartfelt sympathies to Cindy and the entire McCain family, and our thanks to God for the life of John McCain."
https://www.bushcenter.org/about-the-ce ... ccain.html

Barack Obama:
"John McCain and i were members of different generations, came from completely different backgrounds, and competed at the highest level of politics. But we shared, for all our differences, a fidelity to something higher-the ideals for which generations of Americans and immigrants alike have fought, marched, and sacrificed. We saw our political battles, even, as a privilege, something noble, an opportunity to serve as stewards of those high ideals at home, and to advance them around the world. We saw this country as a place where anything is possible - and citizenship as our patriotic obligation to ensure it forever remains that way.

"Few of us have been tested the way John once was, or required to show the kind of courage that he did. But all of us can aspire to the courage to put the greater good above our own. At John's best, he showed us what that means. And for that, we are all in his debt. Michelle and I send our heartfelt condolences to Cindy and their family."
https://www.nbcchicago.com/blogs/ward-r ... 27801.html

They show how mature, secure, gracious, decent people express themselves on an occasion like this...

What a contrast with the current POS-In-Chief...
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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by Econoline »

  • Bernie Sanders

    @SenSanders
    John McCain was an American hero, a man of decency and honor and a friend of mine. He will be missed not just in the U.S. Senate but by all Americans who respect integrity and independence. Jane and I send our deepest condolences to his family.

    7:49 PM - Aug 25, 2018
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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by Burning Petard »

McCain was/is a war hero. Not because he was captured, but because of what he did after he was captured. I cannot discount his actions in those circumstances in any way. My faith tradition has a phrase for respectful and sincere conflict--faithful disagreement.

I faithfully disagreed with many positions taken by Senator McCain but POTUS only made Senator McCain look like a giant of statesmanship and citizenship.

snailgate.

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Lord Jim
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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by Lord Jim »

Here's a link to a lot of the tributes that have been made by US political leaders...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol ... 102273002/

One of the most striking things is how broadly bi-partisan the praise is...(Yes, unfortunately we live in an age now where that qualifies as "striking"...)

I'll just post two of them that illustrate that bi-partisan range:
Rep. Paul Ryan, R-WI: "This is a sad day for the United States. Our country has lost a decorated war hero and statesman. John McCain was a giant of our time—not just for the things he achieved, but for who he was and what he fought for all his life. John put principle before politics. He put country before self. He was one of the most courageous men of the century. He will always be listed among freedom’s most gallant and faithful servants. Our hearts are with his wife, Cindy, his children, and his grandchildren. This Congress, this country mourn with them."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi, D-CA: "The nation is in tears. Today, with the passing of John McCain, Congress and America have lost a leader and public servant of deep patriotism, outstanding bravery and undaunted spirit. Compelled by his unshakeable faith and deep love of country, he dedicated his life to defending both America and the American idea – fighting tirelessly to ensure that our nation always remains a land of justice, freedom and hope.

Over the course of John McCain’s years of distinguished service, whether as a naval officer, Member of Congress, U.S. Senator or presidential candidate, we all saw firsthand his integrity, humility, courage and grace. He never forgot the great duty he felt to care for our nation’s heroes, dedicating his spirit and energy to ensuring that no man or woman in uniform was left behind on the battlefield or once they returned home."
This tremendous outpouring of effusive praise across the political spectrum must be particularly irksome to one US political leader (You'll find his statement at the link I posted...it's easy to spot; it's by far the shortest) who is no doubt absolutely fuming not only because it is directed to someone he has spoken so contemptuously of, but also because he has to know there will be nothing like it when he shuffles off this mortal coil...

It's really got to be stoking the deep jealously he already had about the respect and affection McCain commands that he wishes he had and can never achieve...
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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by Jarlaxle »

While I despise the man's politics, this is a sad day. RIP, John McCain.
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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by liberty »

It should be remembered that Jane Fonda called John McCain and the other POWs liars and war criminals.
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Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by RayThom »

liberty wrote:It should be remembered that Jane Fonda called John McCain and the other POWs liars and war criminals.
Your point being?
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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by liberty »

RayThom wrote:
liberty wrote:It should be remembered that Jane Fonda called John McCain and the other POWs liars and war criminals.
Your point being?
history
Soon, I’ll post my farewell message. The end is starting to get close. There are many misconceptions about me, and before I go, to live with my ancestors on the steppes, I want to set the record straight.

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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by Econoline »

I've gotta hand it to you, lib...while most of the right wing is still fixated on Hillary Clinton, you've managed to stay fixated on Jane Fonda.
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ETA:
  • I would like to say something, not just to Vietnam veterans in New England, but to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families. [...] I will go to my grave regretting the photograph of me in an anti-aircraft gun, which looks like I was trying to shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers. It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horrible thing I could possibly have done. It was just thoughtless.
    - Jane Fonda, 1988
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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by Big RR »

History Lib? At this point in our history, with a complete asshole at the helm, you really care what an actress said nearly 50 years ago?

I, for one, have a great deal of respect for McCain; I am glad he did not become president, and I think he nominated probably the worst VP candidate I could think of short of Trump (one who made Agnew and Quayle look like Rhodes scholars), but he stood firm on healthcare, and I have a great deal of respect for that.

As for Trump, making that short statement and keeping his mouth shut is the classiest thing he can do, but then the man has no class, so I'll bet he'll embarrass himself again--give him time.

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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by BoSoxGal »

He’s already put the flag at the White House back up to full staff; he lowered it for just a few hours Saturday and refused to release a statement lauding McCain in any way.

He is a truly warped human being.
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Lord Jim
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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by Lord Jim »

White House flag flies at full-staff as nation honors John McCain

The American flag flying above the White House was at full-staff early Monday morning even as the nation continued honoring the life and legacy of Sen. John McCain. The Arizona Republican, whose relationship with President Trump has long been fraught, died on Saturday at the age of 81 after battling brain cancer.

While the White House originally lowered the flag late Saturday evening, White House reporters, including CBS News' Mark Knoller, noticed that the flag was back at full-staff Monday morning. [I'd bet somebody on the staff...maybe Kelly...probably ordered it lowered, then Trump found out about it and ordered it put back up]

Knoller notes that Mr. Trump did not issue a formal proclamation on McCain's death. Typical practice is for flags to remain at half-staff through the day of internment. McCain's final resting service will take place Sunday at the U.S. Naval Academy in Annapolis, Maryland.

Meanwhile, governors from Ohio's John Kasich to New York's Andrew Cuomo ordered that public flags in their respective states remain at half-staff to honor McCain. The senator will lie in state at the Arizona state capitol on Wednesday with his first memorial service taking place in Phoenix on Thursday. Vice President Joe Biden is currently slated to speak.

He will later lie in state at the U.S. Capitol on Friday, with another service taking place in Washington on Saturday, where former Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama are expected to speak.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/flag-flies ... ins-death/

Look for the POS-In-Chief to drop some media diversion during the funeral proceedings to try and draw away news coverage...

ETA:

Cross post. (I went ahead and posted anyway, to add the details)
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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by Big RR »

BoSoxGal wrote:He’s already put the flag at the White House back up to full staff; he lowered it for just a few hours Saturday and refused to release a statement lauding McCain in any way.

He is a truly warped human being.
IMHO, after all criticism he heaped upon McCain, I would think him even more warped if he said anything even complementary, let alone laudatory.

The flag thing is ridiculous.

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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by BoSoxGal »

Much has been said about the contrast between the late John McCain – war veteran, bipartisan statesman, noble truth-teller – and a man who seemed way less likely to become president, Donald Trump.

But as the Arizona senator, like Shakespeare’s John of Gaunt, spent his twilight years raging against the coarsening of civic life, he must have been aware that his legacy would include a decision that helped unleash the very forces he came to despise.

Wednesday marks the 10th anniversary of McCain unveiling Sarah Palin, a say-anything, gun-toting political neophyte, as his running mate in the 2008 presidential election. It was an act of political desperation that left Washington aghast. It delivered a short-term boost in the polls. But it also opened the Pandora’s box of populism.

Looking back at the day in Dayton, Ohio, as the crowd roars while McCain’s face is frozen in rictus, the moment is freighted with portents of a decade in which his beloved Republican party would slip from his grasp. It is a premonition of what many in America and around the world have come to regard as the horror of Trumpism.

“I don’t think he could have known it at the time but he took a disease that was running through the Republican party – anti-intellectualism, disrespect for facts – and he put it right at the centre of the party,” David Brooks, a New York Times columnist, told the recent HBO documentary John McCain: For Whom the Bell Tolls.

It is now easy to forget that in September 2008, McCain enjoyed a four-point lead over Barack Obama. Some analysts were sceptical that, given its tormented racial history, America would be willing to elect a black person to its highest office. Despite George W Bush’s unpopularity, the next Republican nominee had a pretty good shot at winning the White House.

In a memorable moment from the campaign – much replayed in TV tributes after his death on Saturday – McCain is seen admonishing a supporter at a rally in Lakeville, Minnesota, who refers to Obama as an “Arab”. The senator shakes his head, takes the microphone and says firmly: “No ma’am. He’s a decent family man, citizen, that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues and that’s what this campaign is all about.” The crowd applauds.

But what received less coverage was another incident at the same rally in which a supporter says he is “scared” by the prospect of a Obama presidency. Again, McCain replies with integrity, insisting: “He is a decent person and a person that you do not have to be scared as president of the United States.” But on this occasion, the crowd boos and jeers in what now sounds like a pre-echo of a Trump event.

A New York Times report of the rally paints a more complicated picture. McCain criticised Obama, it says, for associating with the 1960s radical William Ayers, claiming: “Mr Obama’s political career was launched in Mr Ayers’ living room.” McCain had spent the week “trying to portray Senator Barack Obama as a friend of terrorists who would drive the country into bankruptcy”, the paper notes, running campaign ads that hammered Obama as a “liar”.

On election night itself, McCain’s conduct was beyond reproach as he conceded defeat with singular graciousness. However, when he announced that he had just called Obama to offer congratulations, the crowd booed, and McCain was forced to beg: “Please.” Later, when he referred to Obama leading the country for the next four years, there were more boos and another entreaty of “Please, please”.

From the vantage point of 2018, it looks and sounds like a member of the old guard fighting to hold back the populist tide – a tide that would eventually overwhelm both his party and nation.

And that tide was amplified by the selection of Alaska governor Palin as nominee for vice-president. She told the Republican convention: “I love those hockey moms. You know, they say the difference between a hockey mom and a pit bull? Lipstick.” Her gaffes were quaint by Trumpian standards, but she had little grasp of policy, accused Obama of “palling around with terrorists” and paved the way for a grievance-fuelled, celebrity-driven politics, later appearing in a reality TV show and as a pundit on Fox News.

McCain came to realise that it was a terrible mistake. In the HBO documentary, filmed as he was dying from brain cancer at his ranch in Sedona, Arizona, he made a last confession. He said he regretted not choosing then senator Joe Lieberman, a Democrat turned independent, as his running mate. “I should have said: ‘Look, Joe Lieberman is my best friend, we should take him.’ But I was persuaded by my political advisers it would be harmful, and that was another mistake that I made.”

Jeff Flake, McCain’s Republican colleague from Arizona, told the Guardian: “He regrets not going with his instinct on that, which would have been Lieberman. I don’t know if it would have made the difference in that election but the Palinisation of politics kind of started there. It hasn’t been the best for the Republican party, I will say, but I don’t think he could have known. She was more a symptom of it than anything else.”

Subsequent years brought anti-Obama obstructionism, the rise of the Tea Party and a toxic mix of cultural and economic resentment. What had seemed angry but marginal voices at those McCain campaign events moved centre stage in the Republican party and found an unlikely tuning fork in a New York billionaire and reality TV star.

Trump launched his presidential campaign in June 2015 and soon caused consternation by denying that McCain was a “hero”, saying he preferred heroes who were not captured. In January 2016, Palin endorsed him for president. Once Trump’s character became clear, McCain spent every last ounce of his energy resisting him.

Just days after his diagnosis in July last year, he ignored medical advice and flew from Arizona to the Senate to vote down a Trump-backed plan to scrap Obama’s signature healthcare law. In October, he lambasted the president’s foreign policy as a “half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems”. And last month, when Trump refused to back his own intelligence agencies over Russian president Vladimir Putin in Helsinki, McCain described it as “one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory”.

And yet, future historians seeking to understand the man and his time will surely revisit that day in Dayton, when McCain forced a smile and introduced “the next vice-president of the United States, Governor Sarah Palin of the great state of Alaska”. They will consider what it foretold, and ponder why a man of decency and honour opened the door to demagoguery in America.
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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by Guinevere »

The so-called president killed a White House statement honoring Senator McCain. He is so so so small, it is unimaginable:
President Trump nixed issuing a statement that praised the heroism and life of Sen. John McCain, telling senior aides he preferred to issue a tweet before posting one Saturday night that did not include any kind words for the late Arizona Republican.

Press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders, Chief of Staff John F. Kelly and other White House aides advocated for an official statement that gave the decorated Vietnam War POW plaudits for his military and Senate service and called him a “hero,” according to current and former White House aides, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive internal deliberations. The original statement was drafted before McCain died Saturday, and Sanders and others edited a final version this weekend that was ready for the president, the aides said.

But Trump told aides he wanted to post a brief tweet instead, and the statement praising McCain’s life was not released.

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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by Guinevere »

More on his role on unleashing Sarah Palin on the world

I don't know whether he failed to fully vet her, or just could not comprehend her lack of character, but it is clear he had no idea what forces were gathering and how she would help move the hate forward. He also had no idea how that would rebound against him in his own party -- but not because he had some responsibility for Palin, but because he didn't chose to support her approach. What a shame.
It was both the most memorable moment from John McCain’s 2008 presidential campaign and a glimpse into the future of the Republican Party and America’s angry and divisive modern-day politics.

Played and replayed constantly since the senator’s death on Saturday at age 81, the moment seems to presage the rise of the “birther movement,” the era of “alternative facts” and the presidency of Donald Trump less than a decade later.

At a high school about 30 miles south of Minneapolis, a blond woman in a red shirt addresses McCain, who is in the final weeks of what will be his second failed run for the White House.

“I gotta ask you a question,” she says. “I do not believe in, I can’t trust Obama. I have read about him, and he’s not a . . . he’s an Arab.”

“No, ma’am,” McCain replies, shaking his head and taking the microphone from her. “He’s a decent family man and citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues, and that’s what this campaign is all about.”

In those final weeks, McCain would try to make his campaign more about the issues, upsetting a party base that accused him of not hitting harder at Barack Obama’s background or questioning his patriotism. As the campaign ended, it would become dominated by their anger, at times egged on by the pre-Trumpian populist whom McCain had chosen as his running mate, then-Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.
“She spoke to the emerging base of the Republican Party in a much rawer way and drew out some of the rawer forces that had been subsumed.”

Axelrod recalled sitting in a hotel room and watching McCain take the microphone from the woman at the rally.

“John McCain was saying this is not what I’m about. It’s not what I want the Republican Party or my country to be about,” Axelrod said. “He was not just grabbing the mic. He was grabbing control back of his campaign. It was a brave thing to do.”

McCain’s actions that day shaped the way both he and his presidential campaign are remembered, but they did little to contain the forces of anger and ethno-nationalism that had been unleashed by the 2008 economic crisis, the rise of social media and, to a certain extent, his own campaign for the presidency.
The advertisement, combined with the increasing likelihood of an Obama victory, had unleashed the torrent of Republican anger that Palin helped stoke. At a rally in Florida she had whipped up supporters by telling them that Obama liked to “pal around” with “urban terrorists,” prompting a person in the crowd to shout “Kill him!”

The day before the Minnesota rally, McCain and Palin appeared together in Waukesha, Wis. The senator seemed shocked by supporters who shouted “Terrorist!” and “Off with his head!” at the mere mention of Obama’s name in association with Ayers.

McCain was also visibly uncomfortable with the Ayers line of attack that was being perpetuated on television and at rallies in his name.

“I don’t care about old washed-up terrorists,” he said at the rally, and instead suggested that the real question was whether Obama had lied about the extent of his relationship with Ayers.

His discomfort was even more apparent the next day in Minnesota.

“We would like you to remain a true American hero, [but] we want you to fight,” one supporter railed.
“I will fight, but we will be respectful. I admire Senator Obama,” McCain said to a chorus of boos from the crowd.

Another man, who said his wife was pregnant, told McCain that they were “scared, scared of an Obama presidency. We don’t want to bring up our child in a country. . . . [run by] someone who cohorts with domestic terrorists like William Ayers.”

McCain called his opponent “a decent person and a person you don’t have to be scared of as president of the United States.”

More boos.

Finally came the comment from Gayle Quinnell, 75, of Shakopee, Minn., wearing the red shirt, who called Obama an Arab.

After the rally, a CNN reporter tried to explain to Quinnell that Obama’s father was a Muslim but that the candidate had always been a Christian.

“Yeah, but he’s still got Muslim in him,” she said.
“I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take their feet off our necks.” ~ Ruth Bader Ginsburg, paraphrasing Sarah Moore Grimké

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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

Re Palin - if you just read her bio as Governor of Alaska to that point, she seems like a reasonable person with some level of independence and smarts. (And that's not saying I agree with much of what she did; but she was popular and effective. There was no real clue as to what she would become as VP-candidate.). I am guessing that McCain just read her Wikipedia entry to that point. But you can draw a straight line from Palin (and Quayle before her and probably others selected because of a perceived appeal to a certain essential base of voters) to Trump.

Re the response to the woman who accused Obama of being an Arab: the response “No ma’am. He’s a decent family man, a citizen that I just happen to have disagreements with on fundamental issues, and that’s what this campaign is all about” – may have been "an example of his fundamental decency" but it was inadequate. Better to have said "So what if he is? He's a decent . . . " But maybe like me, he's a whole lot better with the retort five or ten minutes after the fact - what the French call 'l'esprit de l'escalier' or 'wit of the stairs' meaning what you wish you had said at the time.

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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by ex-khobar Andy »

And having said all that, I am grateful for McCain's one vote on the Senate floor. But in other aspects of his life - for instance his treatment of his first wife; and the fact that he undoubtedly killed hundreds (??thousands??) as an enthusiastic bomber pilot in Vietnam; and his general support of all things Republican for most of his career - he was an unmitigated asshole. Like most of us, he was a very complicated person and I am not sure that he deserves the universal panegyrics and wall to wall coverage on CNN.

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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by Sue U »

ex-khobar Andy wrote:I am not sure that he deserves the universal panegyrics and wall to wall coverage on CNN.
If it irritates Trump -- and boy, does it -- I'm good with it.
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Re: Kudos to John McCain, American Patriot

Post by BoSoxGal »

I read an old article online (from 2008) discussing how he had a lengthy history of telling racist and homophobic jokes over drinks at Bullfeathers from his earliest days on the Hill, and that he’d mistreated Cindy in a very public fashion during that campaign, too - it was a story that I recall hearing about at the time, that she teased him about his thinning hair and he called her a cunt and commented on her heavy use of makeup in snarling back at her.

The guy grew up military, was notorious for being last in his class at Annapolis and first in partying and chasing tail - I’m not surprised he was a dog on some level and as a produce of his generation, sexism and racism in healthy measures is no surprise either. I think being a POW made him into a much better man that he might otherwise have been, and in either case he’s leagues ahead of Bone Spurs.

I also relish the fact that Trump is no doubt loathing the attention on McCain this week - but I also hope this week of shifted focus doesn’t let up the pressure too much from the terrible, awful, very bad week of guilty verdicts, pleas, and grants of immunity that was visited upon him last week.
For me, it is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring.
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